God is a function of the unconscious?

[KDude]

Yes. People say when they are on psychedelics that they feel like "another presence" is with them. Psychologists have found it to be this unconscious part of our brain. Also located on the right side. Really interesting..

I've taken my share of psychedelics.. I know what they're referring to.


What's ironic is that after I sobered up, I went soul searching.. I visited churches. And then one day, I visited a charismatic church (if any particular group has a thing for "experiencing the ecstacy" God can bring, it's them). I don't recall all of the things they did exactly... but the service became almost intoxicating.. One minute there was preaching, the next minute, the lights dimmed and the whole congregation started singing in trance.. and then complete gibberish... and for a brief moment.. I felt it.. I was with them..

And then I snapped out of it. It was the same eerie presence I had a few times using LSD or psilosybin. The very thing I was trying to escape I found in a church! What was I to make of that? It was the last thing I would associate with God. I went soul searching in order to get a better mental footing, only to find the same insanity I was running from.

 

[Totenkindly]

i really can't grasp this. so if we had these "god parts" inside us, could "they" communicate? like a god part to a god part? lol... would they be connected somehow and would they be similar in each person?

I think he's referring to the "directive" God part. In my experience within Christian faith, it will often seem like something is speaking to you or giving you nudges or inclinations -- it's a vague and rather inexplicable feeling, but it involves a sense of "rightness" and "peace" or "inner alignment." Basically, instead of being dominated and terrified of external supernatural forces, the divine has been relocated inside in a sense.

I don't think it means anything about "god parts" talking to each other, although perhaps within that faith there's talk of the Spirit moving and is sort of like the "god" part talking to itself between believers.

 

[Loxias]

I was reading in "Psychological Types,", Jung's analysis of "The Relativity of the God-concept in Meister Eckhart", and thought some of the following was interesting. What do you think about some of this?

"the God-image is the symbolic expression of a particular psychic state, or function, which is characterized by its absolute ascendency over the will of the subject and can therefore bring about or enforce actions and achievements that could never be done by conscious effort. This overpowering impetus to action or this inspiration that transcends conscious understanding, has its source in an accumulation of energy in the unconscious"

"God is not even relative, but a function of the unconscious - the manifestation of a dissociated quantum of libido that has activated the God-image"

"The aim of the great religions is expressed in the injunction "not of this world," and this implies the inward movement of libido into the unconsciousness"

"the soul is a personification of the unconsciousness, where lies the treasure, the libido which is immersed in introversion and is allegorized as God's kingdom. This amounts to a permanent union with God, a living in his kingdom, in that the state where a preponderance of libido lies in the unconscious and determines conscious life. The libido concentrated in the conscious was formerly invested in objects, and this made the world seem all-powerful. God was then "outside," but now he works from within, as the hidden treasure conceived as God's kingdom."

Interesting, I wonder how this relates to the different approaches to the concept of God or Gods in different cultures and environment.
I am pretty sure that the fact that the great monotheist traditions were born in the first cities and agricultural lands in the world is linked to this.

While hunter gatherer populations are generally animist.

I'll just leave those questions here (as I need to leave for school), but they could be interesting axes to direct a bit of the conversation on.

 

[yvonne]

i have those feelings, too, that there is something, whatever it is... i used to describe it as "the quiet guide"... it's like there are subtle things happening, in which you can find meaning, but i don't conciously really think about it much. i think it just contributes to my feeling of the value of life and connectedness.

 

[KDude]

i thought that was just.. conscience.

although i've heard some people refer to the quiet voice they're hearing as "God". that's a bit much if you ask me.

 

[yvonne]

i just have this feeling that there's more to life... i feel it very deeply.

 

[KDude]

well i'm not really questioning what you said. it just reminded me of some people i know who specifically have referred to... what amounts to their conscience... as god. and the things he's supposedly saying to them seem incredibly mundane. i just wonder why they don't just call it conscience then. did they somehow block out the entire concept of conscience and skip to calling it "god"? and if they did have a direct connection to god, i'd think he'd have more to offer than mundane advice.

 

[Metamorphosis]

"the God-image is the symbolic expression of a particular psychic state, or function, which is characterized by its absolute ascendency over the will of the subject and can therefore bring about or enforce actions and achievements that could never be done by conscious effort. This overpowering impetus to action or this inspiration that transcends conscious understanding, has its source in an accumulation of energy in the unconscious"

I've figured this was the case for a long time.

I'm not religious and have no real belief in any kind of supreme being, but I will pretend (make myself believe) that certain mythology (christian, norse, etc.) is true, temporarily, specifically to get the mental boost I need to overcome something particularly daunting and put myself in a mental state that is otherwise much more difficult to attain.

 

[yvonne]

i wouldn't go as far as claiming that god is speaking to me... i've had bad experiences with charismatic christianity. i don't take it as seriously anymore. it's just something that i let be. it's not like i really analyze what god, or whatever it might be is possibly telling me... i just believe that there is something, but that i'm in control with what to do and what i think. the feeling that there is that something is very peaceful to me, though.

it's personal and i found it through studying philosophy, psychology and different religions... and just by loving people and life.

 

[yvonne]

maybe that was the wrong expression, though. i do take that feeling seriously. it is in my whole being and is the most important thing to me (love). i meant to say that i am not religious, even though i am spiritual... and i don't go along with stuff... i always think if it fits me. does this make sense?

 

[KDude]

it's cool. i think i'm just alarmed by all of the people saying "The Lord told me to do this or that..." when it just sounds like conscience at work. Maybe in the worst cases, it's ego. Like those TV preachers... they're always talking about what the Lord told them to do... like entire conversations with the lord and shit.

 

[Ginkgo]

So the sexual repression found in the more ascetic religions is subduing God? Or is it harnessing the inertia... or drive of that inner-God by not releasing sexual tension?

 

[KDude]

It's mostly leading them to bugger deaf children, I think.

 

[Mole]

Sublime

So the sexual repression found in the more ascetic religions is subduing God? Or is it harnessing the inertia... or drive of that inner-God by not releasing sexual tension?

Sure, we sublimate ourselves into art or science or caring for others.

And when we sublimate, we are sublime.

 

[Mole]

Ice

It's mostly leading them to bugger deaf children, I think.

Sublimation is not for everyone.

For ice sublimates into vapour, but some of us are destined to remain frozen forever.

And the lowest level of hell is not fire but ice.

 

[Ginkgo]

I've been sifting information looking for God this whole time; come to find he's been in my pants the entire way. I am totally at peace.

 

[ajblaise]

God was a concept created with the conscious, that swept into our subconscious, and that we can't validate until we're unconscious.

 

[Ginkgo]

I think the American National Anthem should be changed to "One Nation Under Sex Drive".

 

[AOA]

There's a huge difference between the greatness of a person - and God (Himself).

 

[highlander]

I'm working hard to respond to this in some way, because it's interesting, but I am at a loss on where to go from here. Did you have a question in mind?

My question was I guess - do you agree, disagree, does this make sense? I thought it was an interesting train of thought. It also reminded me of this book:

Amazon.com: Practice of the Presence of God, The (9780800785994): Lawrence: Books

Which is really a guidebook on how to pray. In this book, it seems what you're essentially doing is bringing stillness to the mind, giving the unconscious a better window to creep out, and that is God speaking to you. I can't recall if there was something in there about the power of collective thoughts or collective unconscious - but that might add to the power of it. In either case, the mechanisms would appear to be consistent to supporting what's said above and this book in the link was distributed by my church. It's quite good.

All of this probably resonates for me a little more because as Ni dominant, tapping into the unconscious may be something I'm a bit more used to thinking about or doing, though I may have not trained myself how to do it well.