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  1. #11
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    p.s. I'd never known that DMT was released in excess right before we die, so thanks for not only independently coming up with a similar thought to my own, but furthering it with that useful nugget of information.

    Makes a lot of sense (although, if you have some kind of good literature on the topic, could you send it my way, cuz I generally don't like taking these kinds of claims at face value).
    The Justice Fighter

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    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

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  2. #12
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    i did not mean you should post info about the drug (i took similar dissociatives btw), i meant we would have to do more living and dying, more drugs, more meditation, in order to* find more data that might hold implications about this death experience.

    (* i would never recommend/advise/advertise a specific random individual on the internet to take any drugs)

    What if the amount of this dmt is so huge/placed right that you lose sense of time so much that the last moment becomes infinite time to you.
    i think, that's where we already have one thought to much about the matter.

    does it take a million thoughts to undo/falsify that thought? or can we take it back, because it's a methodological mistake, to fall for that thought in the first place? in the end, the mind will only prove that it can't just know some things by its own means. the thinking mind.

    so far anyone who experiences some kind of eternity survived it to come back and tell us about it. its seems way too unfounded to assume that a higher dosage would perfect this imperfect eternity. what could more plausibly perfect this eternity is the end of metabolism which implies that nothing would end or follow this "eternity". but there is no reason (in this experience of dmt) to assume that you could not possibly survive it, even without coming back into this body. it's just the old materialistic atheistic worldview, that leads us to assume that only metabolism or "material/biological live" could free us from such a stage, because we think there is nothing else, so no where to escape to. its an assumption.

    of course this does not change anything about the fact that it could be a scary experience. (been there, done that, samsara can kick ass with great endurance)

    my general rules: 1) never assume that a real or super-real experience is the absolute truth.
    2) remember that one truth does not necessarily falsify what looks like an opposite, because all truths belong to a level and even if they have absolute value on one level, the other levels remain as they were. for example: if you tap into a part of yourself that seems to be eternally frozen in time, like Prometheus is chained to a wall, that does not mean that this is the truth and everything else (live on earth) should be rejected as illusion. (applying simple rationality to spiritual insight in such an absolute way would causes depression, its a disease to apply one level of thought to a higher level of experience). the self is not constricted to this level of Prometheus, it can be what appears to be frozen and live a live simultaneously. and live is not more valuable, because it is the temporary exception to the truth of being nailed to the mountains. but it is more valuable because it is possible and because it is more awesome. btw, yes it is my experience that i am a separate self who is nailed to this place right now, while another part of me is alive and typing, and no i try not to assume that this is the highest truth. it's just a single insight that i had. one tiny perspective. one possibility to experience reality.

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    although, if you have some kind of good literature on the topic, could you send it my way, cuz I generally don't like taking these kinds of claims at face value
    Only thing i knew about the subject was few things about how dmt works when taken recreationally, that brains have dtm all the time and that brains release higher amounts of dtm when human is dying.

    I prefer not to use too much information when i start to theorize, since that info might not be correct, so i dont have any literature about this matter.

    I dont think that you would relive anything many times, but more like that you go into the "light" where everything makes sense, everything is there, at the same time forever

  4. #14
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    dmt is also involved in dreams. while it is untypical to have dreams that are like eternity, its not so untypical for people who have messed around with dissociative drugs (which include such alternations of time). my impression is, that once you know a part of your self, a possible way of experiencing your self, your dream live will try to get it's "head around it" and it will occasionally use as much dmt as is necessary to create the mental holodeck that can roughly recreate the drug experience, which might have been an experience, induced by another drug. the dream-state turns out to be very flexible. i am only speculating that dmt is involved in such re-creations.

  5. #15
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I dont think that you would relive anything many times, but more like that you go into the "light" where everything makes sense, everything is there, at the same time forever
    I wasn't making the claim that you would.

    I was just saying that would be a fitting hell for Hitler.

    That being said, I do think it's possible that you experience subjective time, ad infinitum, so, whatever goes on in your head during that infinite subjective time, well, that's up to you, what you did in your life, and your conscience.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    I can see a sort of extended hallucination taking place at death, but I can't see how it would last forever, even perceptually.

    Even with radically lengthened time dilation the brain can only process information so fast.. the longer the experience the less there would be to it. At extremes it would seem an empty thoughtless existence.

  7. #17
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    I can see a sort of extended hallucination taking place at death, but I can't see how it would last forever, even perceptually.

    Even with radically lengthened time dilation the brain can only process information so fast.. the longer the experience the less there would be to it. At extremes it would seem an empty thoughtless existence.
    true, but that is common for a lot of dissociative experiences anyway: not very much happens, but the vision/'what happens' is loaded with density of subjective meaning (taste, primal emotions like horror, angst, pressure/struggle, basic interpretations) - imagine you become one with the concrete tower below a bridge and all you can conceive is the struggle of being between the weight of the bridge and the pull of gravity. ("dissociative" means in this context: outside of the world of sensory input)

    likewise the separate self of hitler could have a paranoid session of feeling a bit damned.

    you are basically alone with yourself. all of it at once. can you stand yourself?

  8. #18
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    I love being alone. Born in it live in it. The last moments are going the be the best of my life. It's a good thing I like life. There's atleast 2 sides to everything an nothing stays the same. (Just so no one calls me suicidal!)

  9. #19
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    So let me get this straight, you're asking me to weigh a theory you and your friends came up with while stoned against that of the world religions whose theorising is worked out through the thinking and experience of generations?
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  10. #20
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    So let me get this straight, you're asking me to weigh a theory you and your friends came up with while stoned against that of the world religions whose theorising is worked out through the thinking and experience of generations?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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