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  1. #21
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    May 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    ^You is the master.

    LOL. I don't understand all this NF talk. I contribute what I can in the way of nitpickery.
    Look. It might be hard for a sensor to apprehend why this conversation is heavily NT, so I'll explain. What we're doing is really asking about how personality is structured. We're gather information and patterns (N) and trying to organize them hierarchically (T) to figure out what the foundation of self-improvement is. Sucker.

  2. #22
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    5w4 sx/sp


    That explains why all the NFs are making such a pigs ear of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by xNTP View Post
    Intuition and gut feelings are strange things. I sometimes have trouble telling apart my thoughts and intuition, but I think that if I'm not sure what it is, it's probably more my thoughts than my intuition. That wasn't really a direct response to what you said, just a side point. I agree with you that following your intuition is important. I also think that that intuitive understand of what you need to be doing DEPENDS on a clear understanding or vision of what it means to be content or at peace.
    Yeah. The way one's subconscious is influenced is by constantly consciously thinking about certain things. We are and indeed become what we think. The more you focus on something, the less open to other scenarios you are. This has it's good and bad sides of course.

    This is another possible root of self-improvement -- focus. If you're too busy collecting and chasing thoughts, you can't stop to see what's going on and what you need to do.
    Yep. I'm living proof of that as an ENFP. And risk always comes after focus. And with fear and chasing thoughts comes indecisiveness again. A certain level of commitment is needed. A certain level of risk is important.

    Nice. That feel very authentic to me. Good luck to you.
    And to you. Btw, which is stronger, your Fe or your Si?

    Do you think that knowing yourself is something you can arrive at through a process of elimination, which is essentially a cognitive exercise, or do you think it's something you have to arrive at through intuition? No Exit discussed SURRENDERING your self-concept to figure out who you are. As I see it, that requires you abandon all cognitive attempts to capture your personality and just see what's left. Cognition might come in at that point in time, but it's less frenetic and more focused.
    As an ENFP with very clear values in life, and that authenticity mumbo-jumbo thing....I find it very hard to surrender my self-concept, but I think I've been doing just that the last few months to a degree.

    I think Te and Si (tertiary and inferior respectively) have helped me to know what to do even though they are very unnatural approaches for an ENFP. With Te I objectively quantify and discriminate aspects of my life I like and dislike and with Si I tap into what has worked in the past.

    So my short answer would be that for an instinctively subjective being (although, really...I can be very logical) objectivity helps me decide what possibilities to pursue. So I guess that part would be a cognitive exercise to a certain extent. But once I've decided what I want to do, a certain measure of surrendering myself to chance and shut down the overthinking is required.

    At least that's my theory I haven't put into practice as much as I want to...but I already realized I need to move somewhere and work in a different area and have more contact with people. How I do it once I'm there is up to chance...and hopefully I'll be stimulated enough by the idea of possibility to just shut down my brain and pursue new experiences.

    That wasn't really a short answer I guess. Foiled again by elaborateness...

  4. #24
    Senor Membrane
    Join Date
    May 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by xNTP View Post
    Do you think that's the first step, or is there something a person must do before? I mean, obviously they need to identify the identity they've been holding on to. Does that take honesty? Is being honest enough to lead a person to discard their identity?
    The first step is when you come to a dead end with your fixed identity.

  5. #25
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    937 so/sx


    The foundation of self-improvement is awareness.

    What do you want to develop? Knowing what you want and working towards goals vs not knowing what you'll discover along the way constitute different paths for example.

    Is there a clear picture in your mind? A vague sense of discontent? Are you looking to find peace, happiness, personal fulfillment?

    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt

    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #26
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008


    A brain. Take yourself where you want to go.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2009


    I dreamed about this thread last night.. I remembered the quote
    " Insanity is doing the same over and over and expecting a different result"
    (don't remember who said it)

    I think this is an apt description of where to start .. Changing behavior and habits.

  8. #28
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010


    i have thought about these things a lot in the past. i read a lot of philosophy, psychology, about religions... it was my therapy during my depression. i never went to a therapist. well, actually i did once, but true to form i told her that nothing was wrong, lol. so that was my first and only session. i also never took drugs.

    anyway... i found that the basic principles in buddhism made the most sense to me... by that i mean balance. i don't think it's useful to me to ask why too much. it is useful to analyze and learn, though, but i found myself thinking in circles, if i pursued that route too deep.

    Ti is really my guide. Fi and Ne are the ones giving me peace, but that's enough for me. for me to be happy i don't need to ask why all the time. my Ti is telling me "it is what it is". so i go about around the probable facts. for me it's very important to keep myself "separate" enough to be able to be objective with myself and balance my actions.

    when my thoughts are in balance with my actions, i'm usually happy... or simply... you need something to do, something to love and something to wish for...

    a positive attitude is also important to me, but to me that means acceptance, as well. in order to reach some of my goals i also need to accept that i will never know "the truth"... and in fact, i think that's irrelevant. i don't think it's our "business" to know some spiritual truth. for me it's enough that i feel that there (probably) is more to life than what we are able to grasp (at this point). that thought gives me "the value of life".

    for me happiness is about the pursuit of making the best of things. i don't pursue to be "perfect", but i pursue to live. there is no other reason for me to live than life itself.

  9. #29
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Child Rearing

    The root of personal development is child rearing practices.

    Child rearing practices have been improving with our knowledge and prosperity.

    And now in prosperous and educated countries, we are starting to practise the helping mode of child rearing.

    We started off with the sacrificial mode of child rearing with God ordering Abraham to sacrifice his son.

    And as we learnt more and become more organised and prosperous, we improved on the sacrificial mode of child rearing with the abusive mode of child rearing.

    Then as life improved we replaced the abusive mode with the authoritarian mode of child rearing.

    And as scarcity was overcome for the first time in human history in developed countries since WW II, we replaced the authoritarian mode of child rearing with the helping mode of child rearing.

    Of course throughout the world today we find the various forms of child rearing. But in prosperous and educated countries, the helping mode of child rearing is making headway.

    So 'personal' development is dependent on how we were raised and how we raise your own children.

    How lucky we are that the past nightmare of child rearing is being slowly replaced by the helping mode of child rearing.

  10. #30
    mrs disregard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007


    I suppose the realisation that there is much peace of mind and satisfaction to be acquired from the personal challenge of maturation.. perhaps from happening upon it by chance.

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