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The Traditional Values Poll

I believe in...


  • Total voters
    79

Kiddo

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These are listed as the traditional values by the Traditional Values Coalition of America. Tradition is often used as a marker on personality tests to determine type, and I am curious as to who believes what, why, and to what degree. I'll make this poll public in all hopes that it isn't too controversial.

Abstinence before Marriage
Fidelity in Marriage
Against Pornography
Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior
Patriotism
Religious Freedom
Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia
Against Addictive Drugs
Against Alcohol
Against Gambling
Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture.
Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.
The Ends Justify the Means.
 

Splittet

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I don't believe in any of it, but I am a philosophical nihilist ...
 

ptgatsby

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Abstinence before Marriage No, least not for myself.
Fidelity in Marriage Yes, although I think marriage is an agreement between people - the negotiated terms of a contract more than inherent fidelity.
Against Pornography No, although I don't particularily understand the need.
Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior No.
Patriotism No.
Religious Freedom Yes, up to a degree anyway. The problem here is that freedom means "I can do whatever I want" - freedom to worship whatever also should come with the freedom from having religion play a part in social life.
Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia No.
*Against Addictive Drugs Yes.
Against Alcohol For me, yes, but not for society.
Against Gambling For me, yes, but not for society... (By gambling I mean games of pure chance.)
Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture. No, too broad of a statement.
Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil. No, poor word choice or unfounded statement.
The Ends Justify the Means. No, since the caps mean this as a statement beyond the words. Typically means carry a cost beyond the end results.


The only one I would vote for unconditionally is the *. The fidelity and alcohol/gambling ones are not conditions I would place on others, even though I believe in them myself. Religion is a mixed bag - when religion begins influencing hiring etc it is no long "freedom", but an expression of religion - however, I also believe that people should be allowed to believe what they want (and themselves be free from the same form of discrimination). What I find is that the dominant religion tends to show that "religious freedom" means one thing, such as public displays, influence in politics, nudge nudge hiring and so forth, while the minority religions want an equal playground (and keep all religion out of sight, or have equal sharing regardless of population differences). Thus "religions freedom" is very difficult to support or not support. Both versions are conditional.
 

Varelse

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The Ends Justify the Means.
That's considered traditional? Odd.

Some I would engage in myself, and wouldn't disparge, but I won't pressure anyone else into them.

Patriotism isn't so bad...jingoism drives me nut. Yes, I can think of good things about my country, and it certainly could be worse. But it's also plenty messed up.
 

OctaviaCaesar

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Please understand that I do not believe that anyone should ever be hated or discriminated against because he disagrees with one of my beliefs--I hate what acts/ideas that I percieve as wrong, but I value and respect all people no matter what they do or believe.

Values corressponding with mine:

Abstinence before Marriage
Fidelity in Marriage
Against Pornography
Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior
Patriotism
Religious Freedom
Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia
Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.
 

Kiddo

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Please understand that I do not believe that anyone should ever be hated or discriminated against because he disagrees with one of my beliefs--I hate what acts/ideas that I percieve as wrong, but I value and respect all people no matter what they do or believe.

Values corressponding with mine:

Abstinence before Marriage
Fidelity in Marriage
Against Pornography
Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior
Patriotism
Religious Freedom
Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia
Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.

It's totally okay. I'm bisexual, often defined as gay in some circles, and I have no problem with people being against homosexual behavior. It's only when people are against homosexuals that I have a problem. Like when people are going around and offering help and treatment to homosexuals, claiming that it isn't their fault that they suffer from a "developmental disorder" and at the same time they are going around telling people that homosexuals molest their children, choose the lifestyle, and have some agenda to destroy America. Fight the behavior, not the people! It's sad because I know some homosexuals who aren't gay in the biological sense and could profit immensely from therapy, but are turned off and put on the defensive by the hateful sentiment against homosexuals.
 

The Ü™

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Abstinence before Marriage: No. And marriage is a religious value. Why does the government give married couples benefits if there is separation from the church and state?

Fidelity in Marriage: How about fidelity outside of marriage? I cannot stand disloyalty

Being against Pornography: No. It's just what became of nude art after cameras were invented.

Being against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior: I really don't care. Whatever floats your boat.

Patriotism: Well, a lack of patriotism is often the reason crooks get voted into office.

Religious Freedom: Yes, but since most of the Western World is Christian or celebrates Christian holidays, we say Merry Christmas. Why should we change things for the small percentage of atheists? And saying Happy Holidays is also religious; Holiday is "Holy Day." In a democracy, majority rules.

Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia: If you were raped, abortion is fine. If your child is a freak (retarded or otherwise deformed), abortion should be mandatory. But if you had sex without a condom, it's your own damn fault. It's not that I like children, I just hate morons.

Being against Addictive Drugs: If people want to waste away their lives, it's their problem. If a person buys drugs from a dealer, it's their own fault; they had the option to say no, so why should the dealer be responsible (aside from tax evasion)?

Being against Alcohol: Only if you're driving.

Being against Gambling: Gambling is very good for the economy. I personally don't do it, but as I have said before, let people waste their money, it's their decision, and it can potentially improve the quality of others' lives.

Being intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture: If we're talking about becoming a multilingual society in America to make immigrants happy, then yes, I am intolerant of this. In America, we speak English. If you come to America, learn English. I am intolerant of political correctness, as well. It's a tired way of facing more important problems.

Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil: Yes, especially since good and evil are relative points of view from various cultures.

The Ends justifying the Means: Definitely. It doesn't matter how you do it. Big picture thinking, people.
 

cafe

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Abstinence before Marriage for myself and as a good choice in general

Fidelity in Marriage for myself and those who have an understanding of monogamy in their relationship

Being against Pornography for myself and believe it can be damaging. the production and distribution should be subject to laws of consent, etc

Being against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior for myself and philosophically against it but have compassion for people with that inclination

Patriotism really patriotic people scare me

Religious Freedom this is very important for the kind of society I want to live in

Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia I'm pro-life, but think legal prohibition is not the most effective way to reduce/handle these issues

Being against Addictive Drugs for myself and think it's a good choice. I think there has to be a better way than filling our prisons with drug offenders, though.

Being against Alcohol for myself and a good choice for those with a personal or family history of its abuse

Being against Gambling for myself and for it's use as the state's poor man's tax

Being intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture. I think behaviors that directly harm individuals ought to be criminally prosecuted. Harming families and culture? Please! Who has the funding for that and where would it stop?

Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil. that's one possible definition of the word . . .

The Ends justifying the Means. the vast majority of the time NO, it does not
 

cascadeco

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I pretty much mirror ptgatsby's responses, with the exception that I partake of alcoholic beverages every now and then. ;) [And I see marriage as a bit more than a contract, but I understand what he's saying. But I'm also for 100% fidelity in any sort of relationship of mine- marriage or not. And I have 'problems' with pornography, because I don't think it's healthy and I think it's more destructive than anything, but I'm not 'against' it per se. It's not like I'm out on a mission to rid the world of it. Because, that's not gonna happen!].

Edit: I totally messed up in the voting. I only selected one the first time, and now can't go back and add others. I would also add most definitely: Fidelity in Marriage
 

Totenkindly

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Being against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior
Oh... THANKS.

Patriotism
I believe in prioritized relationships... but not at the expense of the even larger family of humanity. (i.e., I will spend my energy to help my kids first, but not mistreat other kids just to make my kids look "special" -- and the same goes for my country. I love the USA, but I see myself as part of humanity.)

Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia
I don't think either are "positive things" -- but in limited situations venture into a gray area of "lesser evil" and/or personal volition.

Being intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture.
What does "intolerance" mean here?

Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.
I think discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between two evils/negatives. (If things are so clear as being Good and Evil, well, there's not much choice, is there?)
 

Kiddo

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In my defense, I got these values from a Traditional Values Coalition pamphlet, using just the headings and not their definitions, because I wanted them to be completely open to interpretation when people voted. I think they are much more nicely define on their website, so since the tolerance and discrimination one has proven difficult for people to interpret, this is how they define it.

Edit: Weird, it won't let me post all that. Try again!

Discrimination And Tolerance: We are not tolerant of behaviors that destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Individuals may be free to pursue such behaviors as sodomy, but we will not and cannot tolerate these behaviors. They frequently lead to death. We do not believe it is loving to permit someone to kill themselves by engaging in a self-destructive behavior.
 
O

Oberon

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Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.
I think discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between two evils/negatives. (If things are so clear as being Good and Evil, well, there's not much choice, is there?)

Some Christian writer--and I want to say that it was one of the church fathers--famously wrote to the effect that "Discernment isn't telling right from wrong; discernment is telling the right from the almost-right."
 

Totenkindly

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Discrimination And Tolerance: We are not tolerant of behaviors that destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Individuals may be free to pursue such behaviors as sodomy, but we will not and cannot tolerate these behaviors. They frequently lead to death. We do not believe it is loving to permit someone to kill themselves by engaging in a self-destructive behavior.

They still did not explain what they meant by "not tolerate."
 

Ivy

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I notice they left off "death penalty" from the pro-life one. I can't label myself pro-life if only abortion and euthanasia count. And even then I have numerous caveats (i.e. I'm not in favor of overturning RvW, but I think we should be fixing the social conditions that cause abortion to be an attractive option, and pay more attention to end-of-life care and elder respect).

Some of those ones near the bottom are pretty ambiguous.
 

samIam

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There's only two for me.

Fidelity in Marriage - Only what I expect for mine. Anyone else can do what they want.

Religious Freedom - I think anyone should have the freedom to do anything that does not infringe on another persons Freedom and or rights.
 

ptgatsby

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Discrimination And Tolerance: We are not tolerant of behaviors that destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Individuals may be free to pursue such behaviors as sodomy, but we will not and cannot tolerate these behaviors. They frequently lead to death. We do not believe it is loving to permit someone to kill themselves by engaging in a self-destructive behavior.

That makes it plenty clear that I don't agree with their mindset. I'll be sure to not let their best intentions get the best of me.

Then again, maybe I can. I hereby do declare religion as harmful! I will no longer tolerate it and will begin picketing churches immediately! Repent and accept rationalism, lest I discriminate upon your irrational belief system! I will take your children to prevent you from harming them! I will isolate you from society so you cannot harm society!

Hey, I could get into this mindset! :happy2:
 

Totenkindly

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On the other hand, killing someone for indulging in behaviors that may kill him seems strangely counterproductive...

*gasp*

Of course no one would ever suggest that.

More seriously, I was thinking about whether I should tolerate people who teach their children such an exacting and judgmental way to evaluate and respond to the behavior of others. I don't think it makes "good" people, I think it instills guilt and fear excessively in the child, and I think it perpetuates the same critical spirit that is so destructive for personal growth and community survival.

They need to specify much more clearly what "positive steps" they are taking to love the sodomite. (or... so to speak.) The underlying tone of their comments is harsh and negative.

Edit: DARN IT GATSBY -- stop pre-posting my comments!
 

Kiddo

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They still did not explain what they meant by "not tolerate."

I'll try to post it all one last time, but for some reason it keeps cutting it off.

Discrimination And Tolerance: We are not tolerant of behaviors that destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Individuals may be free to pursue such behaviors as sodomy, but we will not and cannot tolerate these behaviors. They frequently lead to death. We do not believe it is loving to permit someone to kill themselves by engaging in a self-destructive behavior. We believe in discrimination in the good sense: choosing between good and evil, right and wrong, the better and the best. We believe in discrimination in the sense of being discerning between good and bad choices. Popular culture maintains that all forms of discrimination are wrong. This is incorrect. A person with “discriminating taste” is one who uses wisdom in making choices. In short, we believe in intolerance to those things that are evil; and we believe that we should discriminate against those behaviors which are dangerous to individuals and to society.
 
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