The Traditional Values Poll

[The Ü™]

Only because you are afraid, which is cute, but rather annoying.

It is no work to learn to love others and to make them feel good about themselves.

We will continue this discussion here.

 

[Kiddo]

Yay! 200 posts!

I can die with no regrets now.

 

[miss fortune]

200!!!

 

[miss fortune]

damn you....

 

[The Ü™]

What about the Secrets thread? That's moving onto 200 pages!

 

[miss fortune]

I know

(and how sad is it that I'm actually really proud of it?)

 

[Kiddo]

What about the Secrets thread? That's moving onto 200 pages!

Yeah, but I started this thread, so I was personally invested in it breaking 200 posts and setting the bar higher.

 

[The Ü™]

Yeah, but I started this thread, so I was personally invested in it breaking 200 posts and setting the bar higher.

Dammit, I'm so sorry I ruined your thread...

 

[Kiddo]

Dammit, I'm so sorry I ruined your thread...

Meh, tis ones and zeros on some server somewhere. Not important in the least. I just like to tease myself.

 

[Roger Mexico]

Either accept all viewpoints or dismiss all viewpoints. If you accept some, but dismiss others, you are ignorant.

I'm sorry but this has to be the dumbest statement I've read on this forum so far.

It's called thinking. It lets you separate sensible ideas from nonsense. Try it some time.

And, yeah, you're the source of your getting laid problems.

 

[CzeCze]

I swear I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand.

Because certain people that you say are out to get you may use terms like "sanctity of marriage" and "patriot" in ways dissimilar from the common definition, that means that I can't use those terms without being assumed to hold all the same intentions? You're saying these people have stolen these terms and redefined them forever? I can't say that I am a "patriot" and mean someone who loves their country instead of someone who supports a raft of shady dealings? Or is it just that you don't feel you can afford to take the chance?

Hey FM, I was speaking directly to the quotes of family values lifted from the website. I wasn't speaking at all to the motivations of other people who posted their agreeance with some of the values or in response to other members. The short answer is no, I don't think members who said 'yes' in this thread to any of the values stated necessarily support a right-wing agenda or even the specific agenda of the website.

'I'm patriotic' can mean very many things, it depends on the context and who is saying it.

And that is the danger. Because these quotes came from a website with an agenda so they are not in a vacuum, they are laden with context and attached to an agenda which I do not serve. Of course you may agree with some of the values reinterpreted from your POV -- I wasn't speaking to that.

I was speaking to the fact this basically a lobbying ploy. Stating seemingly 'universal', innocuous, time-tested values is quite crafty because it makes it seem like the neo-conservative movement has more popular backing than it actually does and is much more 'universal' and centrist than it is.

Of course most people will say something like "I want to protect my family". But like Jennifer said, if a neo-conservative with an agenda asks you that and you agree -- suddenly BAM it assumed you support what THEY mean by 'protecting the family'.

So again, I was speaking directly to the original quotes and the larger context for them.

 

[CzeCze]

Poor Uber, I think you are a little misunderstood -- just like Kiddo! Hahaha.

I don't think Uber you are all that bad at all. You would probably still have somewhat extreme views even if you were not as sheltered about the world but they would be more balanced and nuanced and worded much less blntly and for 'maximum effect'. If you had more real life experience.

This isn't a diss -- you are just more sheltered and into your own world and opinions than your age and gender mean IMHO -- and that's saying a lot! Hahaha, no offense guys in the 19-23 age range.

Aside from what others have said, you sometimes seem like a glutton for punishment. You follow up to people's annoyed/angry comments with this child-like doe-eyed 'But, what? I really do like eating babies?' I think there is a genuine curiousity about the world and how people think, but combined with the things you say, it just draws the ire of some folks. And once people smell blood, the pack goes in for the kill!

You just don't engage with people the way that is expected.

So I do think people sometimes pick on you (poor Uber) but you also seem to like picking at people as well and are genuinely clueless as to people's boundaries and responses to you.

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think you're a troll or should censor yourself. If that's what you really think, it's what you really think.

Just don't be surprised by the displeased responses and/or disbelief ...

 

[Hypomanic]

Wow. I've just gained a whole new perspective on why some people can act like unintelligent jerks for attention. It's because they are immature and don't know any better, not just because they are jerks that don't care. Rather, they just don't know and that's why they act like a fool. Everyone, please just ignore this post, I just had a realization and needed to document it via this message board.

 

[The Ü™]

I'm sorry but this has to be the dumbest statement I've read on this forum so far.

It's called thinking. It lets you separate sensible ideas from nonsense. Try it some time.

It's due to my own philosophical beliefs. The thing about theories and beliefs is they're probably all right or all wrong.

Ideas are sensible to whom? Things make sense to some people, not to other people. To religious people, creationism makes perfect sense. To science people, evolution makes perfect sense. And both sides shun each others' points of view.

People shape their own reality.

To me, personally, evolution does make eons more sense than creationism. But to the creationist, creationism makes more sense. And we have plenty of scholars in both fields. Every answer is legitimate. Everything is either right or wrong.

There is a certain point where myth and belief must take over, and when that happens, our perceptions of science become altered, not because an omnipotent (and "loving" asshole) God will send us to Hell if we don't do things his way, but because the entirety of reality becomes questioned.

I do not know why people are finding this so difficult to follow.

 

[cascadeco]

It's due to my own philosophical beliefs. The thing about theories and beliefs is they're probably all right or all wrong.

Ideas are sensible to whom? Things make sense to some people, not to other people. To religious people, creationism makes perfect sense. To science people, evolution makes perfect sense. And both sides shun each others' points of view.

People shape their own reality.

To me, personally, evolution does make eons more sense than creationism. But to the creationist, creationism makes more sense. And we have plenty of scholars in both fields. Every answer is legitimate. Everything is either right or wrong.

There is a certain point where myth and belief must take over, and when that happens, our perceptions of science become altered, not because an omnipotent (and "loving" asshole) God will send us to Hell if we don't do things his way, but because the entirety of reality becomes questioned.

I do not know why people are finding this so difficult to follow.

Now THAT makes sense to me, and I understand what you're saying. I'm not sure I agree w/ your ultimate conclusion that 'Everything is either right or wrong', nor that for everyone there is a point where myth and belief must take over, but I get what you're saying. But I'm not going to argue it one way or the other, because I don't feel like getting into it or see that any consensus could be reached on topics like this.

 

[The Ü™]

Now THAT makes sense to me, and I understand what you're saying. I'm not sure I agree w/ your ultimate conclusion that 'Everything is either right or wrong', nor that for everyone there is a point where myth and belief must take over, but I get what you're saying. But I'm not going to argue it one way or the other, because I don't feel like getting into it or see that any consensus could be reached on topics like this.

Evolution gets wrapped up in myth, too, like the Big Bang theory. What came before that? If you say it was God, then who created God? And the dance goes on...

Now some will close the question by saying that eternity is a concept that mankind cannot grasp, others like myself will say that reality is just an illusion.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

For the love of penguins, just let it go!

 

[cascadeco]

Evolution gets wrapped up in myth, too, like the Big Bang theory. What came before that? If you say it was God, then who created God? And the dance goes on...

Now some will close the question by saying that eternity is a concept that mankind cannot grasp, others like myself will say that reality is just an illusion.

Damnit!! I'm getting sucked in!!

I'm not going to talk about the evolution getting wrapped into myth thing, because that's just another can of worms and I'm in the camp where I think there are a lot of facts backing it up, and I studied it in college, and outside of college...anyhow, not going there. Everyone has their own opinion on the validity or invalidity of the evidence/data/what have you. Yes, there are tons of people who think oppositely from me about evolution, but I don't particularly care. They think what they think, I think what I think, whatever. No one's going to be convincing anyone else otherwise on topics such as these. We each believe what we believe.

As for the 'What came before The Big Bang' thing...I simply don't know. And I'm fine not knowing. And I don't particularly like the 'Who created God' argument, because someone can simply respond 'God simply IS. God has always been.' Which I think is a lame response, because I could simply respond in a similar manner 'The Universe and all of its particles always have been. They simply ARE. The universe keeps on recycling, endlessly, and it's been that way forever.'

I don't know.

 

[The Ü™]

And no, I am not religious.

 

[The Ü™]

Poor Uber, I think you are a little misunderstood -- just like Kiddo! Hahaha.

Ni dominance, maybe?