• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

The Traditional Values Poll

I believe in...


  • Total voters
    79

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
23,989
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6
Kiddo, if you go into the quote and change any unusual characters, it should stop cutting it off. Quotation marks and em-dashes are some of the common ones that make this happen. Sometimes the website you're quoting from uses a different format, or something. This non-techie technical explanation has been brought to you by me. :)
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Screw it! Here is the site. But a word of warning. My browser has been acting really funny since I went there.

Ick! Get it off! Get it off! It burnssssss!!!!!

I went there. I came back. But the nightmares still come.

This was funny: They doctored their one image on the site... either that, or she's a troll and he's a midget:

lou_and%20_andrea.jpg


Here is the part that turned me off:
A moral code and behavior based upon the Old and New Testaments. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that the Lord has given us a rule book to live by: The Bible. We are committed to living, as far as it is possible, by the moral precepts taught by Jesus Christ and by the whole counsel of God as revealed in the Bible.

It's outside-in righteousness, and also with no real distinction about what it means to live by the "Old Testament" law. (Do they REALLY follow the OT?)
 

Kiddo

Furry Critter with Claws
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
2,790
MBTI Type
OMNi
Ick! Get it off! Get it off! It burnssssss!!!!!

I went there. I came back. But the nightmares still come.

This was funny: They doctored their one image on the site... either that, or she's a troll and he's a midget:

lou_and%20_andrea.jpg


Here is the part that turned me off:


It's outside-in righteousness, and also with no real distinction about what it means to live by the "Old Testament" law. (Do they REALLY follow the OT?)

Are you critiquing my source for traditional values? I'll have you know that the TVC are sponsors of such unbiased and informative sites as this one.

Homosexual Urban Legends - The Series
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
Edit: DARN IT GATSBY -- stop pre-posting my comments!

Eh, I hunt day and night looking to anticipate and destroy your posts! :D

However, I do someday hope that they get to experience what made Christianity notable - belief in the face of serious adversity. We'll talk about their values on tolerance then.
 

MJ_

New member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
72
MBTI Type
INFj
Abstinence before Marriage-its none of my business what other people do behind closed doors. It seems to be a bad idea. By all means, find a partner you care for, wait until you are emotionally mature, but don't think that marriage will ensure that.

Fidelity in Marriage- Please. unless the couple decides otherwise.


Against Pornography
-I see mainstream porn as a negative influence in the world.

Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior- I'm trying to figure out what transgender behavior is, exactly. People are people. GLBT people have jobs, hobbies, sex and families like everyone else. Well, minus having kids because of drunken one night stands for the most part.

Patriotism- people should love their country enough to want to make it a better place to live.


Religious Freedom
- wonderful. Now, please, may I be free of it if I so choose?


Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia
- I'm pro choice, against the death penalty, and I believe that people should be able to chose when they end their own life. Its the bodily autonomy principle.


Against Addictive Drugs
-define addictive and how much harm they cause, and we can talk.

Against Alcohol, Against Gambling
- not my thing. Addicts should be prevented from being allowed into casinos etc, but treatment should be available.

Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture- I can't think of any behavior that harms people that isn't covered under existing laws. And how can a behavior harm a culture, exactly? Or harm a family when it doesn't harm an individual.


Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.
thats vague.

The Ends Justify the Means. Usually not.
 

Zergling

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,377
MBTI Type
ExTJ
Are you critiquing my source for traditional values? I'll have you know that the TVC are sponsors of such unbiased and informative sites as this one.

Homosexual Urban Legends - The Series

That front page itself was pretty funny. "Did you know homosexual groups first appeared out of Marxist groups?"


As for the values, some of them were pretty iffy, thanks to many way of interperetation:

Against Addictive Drugs:: I'm not sure which drugs, and whether "against" refers to drug law type decisions or simply not liking them. I personally would prefer that people be encouraged to use a little of many types of drugs as possible, thanks to a lot of effects on others such as job, safety, and family issues, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about this.

Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture: This would be such a wide range of behaviour that it's hard ot give any sort of strong answer to it. I am clearly against murder, mostly do not like overuse and ineffeciency of energy, money, and other resources, and don't care too much about minor day to day disagreements that may break apart marriages.

The Ends Justify the Means: I do agree with this, but only if all the effects (side effects and costs as well as main effects) of an action are considered as "ends". Doing something that gets millions of people killed but saves a few trees is not justifiable, because the ends add up to something unwanted. I do not consider any methods as automatically bad unless their effects are bad.
 

The Ü™

Permabanned
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
11,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Reading the dictionary definition of fidelity, why does it have to be exclusive to marriage? Shouldn't it be for any sort of relationship?
 

Kiddo

Furry Critter with Claws
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
2,790
MBTI Type
OMNi
Reading the dictionary definition of fidelity, why does it have to be exclusive to marriage? Shouldn't it be for any sort of relationship?

Well if you are following the first value, then fidelity outside of marriage isn't even a concern. :D
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Abstinence before Marriage- already messed that one up! :D

Fidelity in Marriage- definitley- if you want to fool around with someone else at least have the balls to get a divorce

Against Pornography- umm.. no... Debbie Does Dallas is actually hillarious!

Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior- I don't care really- do whoever makes you happy!

Patriotism- I'm so tired of that word anymore! *grrrr*

Religious Freedom- don't tell me what to beleive and I won't tell you!

Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia- none of my business really- and make the morning after pill more available! (it's horrible enough that I can't see anyone taking it lightly!) I'm anti death penalty though!

Against Addictive Drugs- if you die it's your fault

Against Alcohol- ditto (and I sell alcohol! don't ban it! :cry: )

Against Gambling- don't care

Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture.- too vague- I'm against people purposefully hurting others if that helps! :)

Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil. :huh:

The Ends Justify the Means.- ummm... no
 

Randomnity

insert random title here
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
9,485
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I already voted but didn't explain.

Abstinence before Marriage- no, though I think you should be mature about it

Fidelity in Marriage- yes, and fidelity in relationships too.

Against Pornography- no

Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior- I voted no, because I don't see anything wrong with different sexual preference and that seems to be the more important part of the question. And I don't think any behavior should be actually outlawed.

Patriotism- not blindly, no.

Religious Freedom- freedom to do anything that doesn't hurt another

Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia- no

Against Addictive Drugs- undecided about legality. I'll look down on you if you're stupid enough to get hooked on crack though, I'm sorry.

Against Alcohol- no

Against Gambling- no, stupidity shouldn't be outlawed

Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture.- not specific enough to agree

Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil. no, because good and evil are subjective and moralistic

The Ends Justify the Means.- I voted no because of what this phrase typically means, but for me "the ends" includes all consequences resulting from your "means", so if it's worth it, it's worth it.
 

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,771
MBTI Type
infp
Religious freedom: I didn't know this was considered "traditional". The traditional value always seemed to be "think like me!". Religious Freedom is a no brainer.

Things that may destroy individuals/families/communities: I assume destroy means kill or cause serious problems in life to the point people cna no longer lively happily. Anything that does that to people should not be allowed, unless the person says "I'm going to do this, this is my purpose!" but that doesn't ever happen :D

Addictive drugs: See above.

I also believe in fedelity to some extent, but it depends on the couple. Generally, marriage is an agreement of total exclusiveness between two people. However, if these two people want to agree to have an "open marriage" where they can have other sexual partners if they desire as long as they are open and honest about it, thats cool too.
 

runvardh

にゃん
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
8,541
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
A disclaimer for my choices: I only hold myself to them.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Abstinence before Marriage: Pfft

Fidelity in Marriage: Well, no, but I say that marriage is silliness to begin with.

If you're going to get married, then it would be favorable, unless there was an agreement beforehand.

Being against Pornography: Why? I mean... sure we could be putting the money to "better" use, but then there would be someone saying "Being against 'xxx'"

Being against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior: Same as porn. It really makes no difference to me. If these people want their porn, or gay porn, or to just be gay, why stop them? They're not causing any tangible damage to me, and if they are, I don't know about it, so until someone can prove to me that homosexuality is a detriment to myself, I say, have at it.

Patriotism: Well, I'm not a patriot. I don't mind the fact that there are such things as patriots. I do mind however these people telling me things like " You gotta get behind the troops, even if you dislike the war"

Especially dealing with Iraq... I've struggled with these people. I don't think I have any obligation to the troops. 100% of them are volunteers for a war I disagree with. If they want to get killed for a cause they believe in, fine, but don't ask me to support those assholes, because they're doing something I think is terrible. From my vantage point, it would be the same as supporting someone in their crusade against intellectualism or comedy.

Patriotism, is, I think very stupid, as is Nationalism, Patriotism's ugly pimple stricken cousin.

Religious Freedom: I have a different definition of religious freedom than most. See, everyone says that people should be allowed to worship as they please. That's fine, and I agree with that, but by preaching, or recruiting other people to your religion from theirs, you're not REALLY allowing people their religious freedom. Therefore, I believe, that if 'religious freedom' were in effect, no one would know it, because no one would ever talk about their religion. Arguments and debates aside, no matter what anyone says, about god, or about science, or about ANYTING, it has some effect on other peoples' entire psyche and beliefs and all that, even if only on negligible scale.

Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia: No. I'm not one of these pro choice assholes, I just don't think that this whole "life" thing is so sacred. I view computers as a form of life. Not carbon life - silicon life. I've got some evidence and well thought out arguments to support it, so it's not like what I'm saying is unfounded.
Being against Addictive Drugs: LOL. Let 'em take all the drugs they want. If they take enough, they'll die. Otherwise, it doesn't matter.
Being against Alcohol: Same as above.
Being against Gambling: No, I'm Satan. I'm all for it.
Being intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture: I don't really care for this culture (as you can see by my hatred for the above defining principles). I don't really care for any culture. Culture detracts from creativity, and enforces capitalism and racism among other insignificant things. It's one of the greatest hinderances to the acquisition of truth ever created.

Discrimination as the wisdom of choosing between good and evil: What does that even mean? Using discretion within moral cases? Who decided what morals are anyway? One thing I've noticed is that everyone seems to have vastly differing morals, where things like science - things that can be proven, seem to be agreed upon. There might be debate on the details, but, gravity and the sun keep showing up every morning (yes, I have considered the possibility of solipsism and changing memory - either way, what I remember matches what is happening).
The Ends justifying the Means: What end? What means? I always figured this was a case by case expression.
 

Hypomanic

New member
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
89
MBTI Type
INTJ
Abstinence before Marriage It's a good thing, but I don't care either way.
Fidelity in Marriage Yes. Loyalty.
Against Pornography I don't care either way.
Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior NO.
Patriotism Don't care either way.
Religious Freedom Yes.
Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia Pro-choice.
Against Addictive Drugs Don't care either way.
Against Alcohol Don't care either way.
Against Gambling Yes.
Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Yeah.
Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil. NO.
The Ends Justify the Means. Sometimes. I believe in Science.
 

lecky

New member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
148
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Abstinence before Marriage I don't think it's necessary to wait to have sex until marriage but I do think you should be careful about who you have sex with...basically don't be a male/female slut and use protection.

Fidelity in Marriage Very important to me, this is what I voted for up top. Maybe because I grew up in a family where my father was not faithful to my mother...it affected me a great deal, had a hard time with it.

Against Pornography I don't care, just use it in moderation. I dated this guy who loved porn way too much...huge turn off, would never marry someone like that.

Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior There's nothing wrong with it, it's not hurting anyone. I also believe that homosexuals should be able to marry if they want to.

Patriotism I'm not very patriotic but have nothing against people who are. There's something a bit silly to me about extreme patriotism though.

Religious Freedom Absolutely! I feel strongly about this as well!

Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia I'm prochoice

Against Addictive Drugs Yes I'm against addictive drugs, I've seen drugs ruin people's lives. Although if they ever legalized marijuana, I'd be indifferent.

Against Alcohol In moderation, not a big fan but I do occasionally drink more than I shoud.

Against Gambling Ugh, have personal experiences again with this in my family. I don't think it should be outlawed but I despise it and stay away from it.

Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture. Sure...

Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil. I guess this depends on how one would discriminate against someone. Too vague...

The Ends Justify the Means. Not always...
 

sassafrassquatch

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
961
Abstinence before Marriage
Stupid. Have as many or as few sexual partners in life as you want but there's no reason to make this a moral value.
Fidelity in Marriage
Unless explicitly stated that the relationship is sexually open most people would assume it to be monogamous. I would consider this to be plain old honesty rather than a value in itself.
Against Pornography
If consenting adults want to produce porn to be consumed by consenting adults there's no problem. Good stuff.
Against Homosexual/Bisexual/Transgender behavior
Nobody's business if you do.
Patriotism
Is the same as racism.
Religious Freedom
Religion should be wiped out, violently if necessary.
Right to Life: Against Abortion and Euthanasia
I'm not just pro-choice, I'm pro-abortion, a woman should have absolute control over her body. When a person chooses to end their life is their business, not yours.
Against Addictive Drugs
It's your body. You can chug drain cleaner for all I care but if you get drunk, high, stoned or whatever, lose control of yourself and start causing trouble society will put an end to you.
Against Alcohol
Same as above.
Against Gambling
Nothing wrong with this. If someone is addicted to something they need help.
Intolerant to any behavior that may destroy individuals, families, and our culture.
I'm not sure what to do with this. Some elements of our culture need to be destroyed.
Discrimination is the wisdom of choosing between good and evil.
Not sure about this either.
The Ends Justify the Means.
Sometimes.
 

The Ü™

Permabanned
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
11,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
The only reason I'm pro-life for promiscuous women (without condom) is because I want them to suffer for their lack of responsibility. Other than that, let's kill babies!
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Patriotism: Well, I'm not a patriot. I don't mind the fact that there are such things as patriots. I do mind however these people telling me things like " You gotta get behind the troops, even if you dislike the war"

Especially dealing with Iraq... I've struggled with these people. I don't think I have any obligation to the troops. 100% of them are volunteers for a war I disagree with. If they want to get killed for a cause they believe in, fine, but don't ask me to support those assholes, because they're doing something I think is terrible. From my vantage point, it would be the same as supporting someone in their crusade against intellectualism or comedy.

Patriotism, is, I think very stupid, as is Nationalism, Patriotism's ugly pimple stricken cousin.

Religious Freedom: I have a different definition of religious freedom than most. See, everyone says that people should be allowed to worship as they please. That's fine, and I agree with that, but by preaching, or recruiting other people to your religion from theirs, you're not REALLY allowing people their religious freedom. Therefore, I believe, that if 'religious freedom' were in effect, no one would know it, because no one would ever talk about their religion. Arguments and debates aside, no matter what anyone says, about god, or about science, or about ANYTING, it has some effect on other peoples' entire psyche and beliefs and all that, even if only on negligible scale.

I pretty much have the same views as you on these two items, although I would phrase it a bit more delicately. ;) I have similar trains of thought re. patriotism/nationalism. And recruiting/spreading the word/missionizing is extremely distasteful to me.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
The only reason I'm pro-life for promiscuous women (without condom) is because I want them to suffer for their lack of responsibility. Other than that, let's kill babies!

then what punishment do the irresponsible guys get?

seriously man, the side effects from the morning after pill are so absolutley miserable that they should be enough of a punishment!!!
 
Top