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Buddhism and Love

S

Sniffles

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One thing I do LOVE about Buddhism is the fact that it invites you to question all you want about what it stands for, and I agree with the philosophy for the most part. Very peaceful, insightful, and a breath of fresh air for me (considering I grew up with a lot of cramming down of very traditional values not to be questioned but taken for what it is). :yes:
Questioning is found in various traditions, not just Buddhism. It's through questioning one better understands their tradition and why it teaches what it teaches.
 

kiddykat

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Questioning is found in various traditions, not just Buddhism. It's through questioning one better understands their tradition and why it teaches what it teaches.
I didn't say just in Buddhism.
 

Scott N Denver

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Questioning is found in various traditions, not just Buddhism. It's through questioning one better understands their tradition and why it teaches what it teaches.

Maybe, but Buddhism is far more open/emphatic about it than any monotheistic anything I've ever encountered or learned about. People debate whether Buddhism is a religion or a philosophy, but I've never heard it called a "faith" ever, by anyone. Last time i checked all the monotheisms are "faiths". Not being a faith, and not having dogma per se leaves much more room for questioning/ignoring/being agnostic on things.

He's not Buddhist, but as Jaggi Vasudev points out "whether your believe something is true or whether you believe something is false, either way it is a believe. And those don't get you very far. Actually, they are basically just pre-conceived notions. And one's attachment to pre-conceived notions often gets in the way of seeing and experiencing what one is actually dealing with. I need you to get beyond beliefs."
 
S

Sniffles

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Maybe, but Buddhism is far more open/emphatic about it than any monotheistic anything I've ever encountered or learned about. People debate whether Buddhism is a religion or a philosophy, but I've never heard it called a "faith" ever, by anyone. Last time i checked all the monotheisms are "faiths". Not being a faith, and not having dogma per se leaves much more room for questioning/ignoring/being agnostic on things.

I'm aware of the (perceived) latitudinarian nature of Buddhism, and why that is one major attraction people have to it. And it's interesting you note that lacking dogmas leaves more room for being angostic, which I would agree in the original meaning of the word.

He's not Buddhist, but as Jaggi Vasudev points out "whether your believe something is true or whether you believe something is false, either way it is a believe. And those don't get you very far. Actually, they are basically just pre-conceived notions. And one's attachment to pre-conceived notions often gets in the way of seeing and experiencing what one is actually dealing with. I need you to get beyond beliefs."

Yet in order to agree with this, you have already assumed that he states is true. The notion that pre-conceived notions can in the way of discerning the true nature of reality is not absent from monotheistic faiths either.
 

Mycroft

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Oh gosh Peguy, please do regale us with a tortuous rationalization of how Catholicism, despite being rife with peremptory dogma and ritual, in fact allows more latitude in belief than Buddhism.
 
S

Sniffles

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Oh gosh Peguy, please do regale us with a tortuous rationalization of how Catholicism, despite being rife with peremptory dogma and ritual, in fact allows more latitude in belief than Buddhism.

Did a priest spill communion wine on you as a child?
 

Venom

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People often confuse Buddhism and Hinduism I notice. Concerning Buddhism as a philosophy or a religion, well it often depends. Particularly with the differences between Theravada and Mahayana schools for example. I know Tibetan Buddhism more freely mixed itself with native folk beliefs and shamanism.

You have to take in effect also that many Westerners who practice Buddhism often focus more on its philosophical aspects rather than what we would call its more religious aspects - as one would find in many Asian cultures.

Maybe, but Buddhism is far more open/emphatic about it than any monotheistic anything I've ever encountered or learned about. People debate whether Buddhism is a religion or a philosophy, but I've never heard it called a "faith" ever, by anyone. Last time i checked all the monotheisms are "faiths". Not being a faith, and not having dogma per se leaves much more room for questioning/ignoring/being agnostic on things.

He's not Buddhist, but as Jaggi Vasudev points out "whether your believe something is true or whether you believe something is false, either way it is a believe. And those don't get you very far. Actually, they are basically just pre-conceived notions. And one's attachment to pre-conceived notions often gets in the way of seeing and experiencing what one is actually dealing with. I need you to get beyond beliefs."

Oh gosh Peguy, please do regale us with a tortuous rationalization of how Catholicism, despite being rife with peremptory dogma and ritual, in fact allows more latitude in belief than Buddhism.

Im actually going to agree with Peguy. IMO, a lot of idiot new agers look to Buddhism thinking, "its so open! its not a religion! I can just add it on top of all my other beliefs/religions/metaphysics". To be fair, this may not be a criticism of you all here. In reality though, in a western sense, it is just as much of a religion as Christianity.

There ARE certain metaphysical beliefs that you HAVE TO believe with more faith than daily experience to really drive you to want to be this gun ho about the middle path. If you don't believe in reincarnation for example, then there really is very little difference between the practice of Buddhism and the practice of Epicureanism or any other ascetic religion. Its reincarnation that prevents the entire thing from falling on its nihilistic ponzi scheme self. If there's no reincarnation, then whats the fucking point of worrying about imagining yourself out of existence? If there's no reincarnation, then Buddhism just concerns itself with happiness in this life and its "middle path" is no different than a bunch of other ascetic religions.

Here's a nice topic for everyone: why have so many religions basically amounted to asceticism? Do humans have a deep seated desire to deny themselves of various things (serious)?
 

lowtech redneck

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There is definitely plenty of debate about whether Buddhism, and the others, should be called "eastern religions" or "eastern philosophies."

If one believes in reincarnation, and that Karma influences what an individual reincarnates into, and believes that practicing Buddhism will influence that process, then its a religion AND a faith, pure and simple.

Edit: I should have read Babylon Candle's post first.
 
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Mycroft

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Babylon Candle, most forms of Buddhism (Zen in particular) offer an alternative to the oxymoron of the "First Cause": that time is incidental to our experience of reality, not to reality itself. The idea is that, by proper training and practice, we can learn to set aside the contents of our imaginations (emotions, phantasms, etc.) and experience, to the greatest degree possible, the subjectivity of time and space. To the extent that ideas like "reincarnation" are taught, they're used as parables to be understood and then moved beyond on the path to greater understanding.

As for your being nihilistic, the idea is that by setting aside the things that exist only within our imaginations we begin to experience life; not exactly a proposition I would consider "nihilistic" in its proper philosophical sense or in the negatively-nuanced, colloquial sense you're using the term.

As for whether or not it's a religion, just what constitutes a "religion" is vague to begin with, and in my experience, people who call it a philosophy rather than a religion are doing so because they're Christians who can't fathom of a religion that doesn't concern itself predominantly with what one may or may not do.
 

Mycroft

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Did a priest spill communion wine on you as a child?

No, I just take issue with people who go about judging and looking down their noses on the basis of a fairy tale they've not an iota of evidence to support.
 

lowtech redneck

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To the extent that ideas like "reincarnation" are taught, they're used as parables to be understood and then moved beyond on the path to greater understanding.

One would think such "parables" would be presented as such within Buddhist religious text; the entire concept of reincarnation seems crucial to the theological assumptions and structure of all branches of Buddhism.

Incidentally, why would "life" absent whatever meaning or utility our imaginations give to it be something one would wish to experience?
 
S

Sniffles

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No, I just take issue with people who go about judging and looking down their noses on the basis of a fairy tale they've not an iota of evidence to support.

I believe because it's bullshit - there happy now? :rolli:
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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Do you feel like other people are really mis-interpreting or mis-understanding Buddhism here? I'm definitely feeling that way. In short, I think people are seeing it as a philosophy, or else similar to some philosophy, and then just leaving it at that. To be fair, many of the things they are saying ARE common misinterpretations. At least with, say, Hinduism, its usually clear to people that they don't know much about what they are talking about...

I think that's pretty accurate.
 

mr.awesome

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^ sorry if i botched the thread in the first place. my thoughts and questions about the topic are based off a few wiki articles, a few quote books from dalai lama, and some real basic overview picture-books of buddhism as a whole. haha
 

Ape

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No no no no no no no...

You can have love. Buddha said don't obsess over it and hang your self-worth on anything. Own your own self-worth. So, if relationships come, that's fine, but if they go, let them go. Don't attach to them and obsess over them because if you do, you'll be unhappy. If you can genuinely let things come and go in your life and not get tripped up by them, that's fine. Sensual pleasure comes, it comes; it goes, it goes. Buddhism would encourage you not to fixate upon it. AVOIDING IT, like your OP suggests, would be a form of fixation, just in the other direction. This is why Buddhism is called the Middle Way. You neither pursue nor avoid pleasure and pain, but accept them and move on. (I'm not criticizing you at all, btw.)

There's a book called Open to Desire by...argh...google it. I believe it addresses this topic. Jack Kornfield, John Kabat-Zinn, Trudy Goodman, Bonnie What'sherface, they all are married or have significant others. The issue for a Buddhist isn't whether or not to get married, but what type of relationship to form to that person and how the nature of that relationship may interfere with other responsibilities and priorities you might have (like saving all beings from suffering, but that's not an issue you raised in your OP).

Cheers.

Nailed it

Well said

I would add, that certain Types have a more natural inclination toward the Middle Way.
 

Ape

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Jeepers creepers people

A man found a righteous path in his mind, to a groovy destination, without destination, nor dust in the eyes.

He encouraged others to follow his lead, but left somewhat muddled directions.

All the rest is just fluff
 

Feops

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although i know Buddhism teaches we need to pry from our senses and worldly matters.. is such attraction between a man and a woman to be ignored and discouraged as evil hedonistic attachments?

I don't see this as a a discouragement of connection, but of attachment.

Becoming too attached to a person, or a pleasure, or a thing, inevitably leads to pain when things change. Life is about change, so an enlightened individual accepts this and is fluid in their thinking.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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^ sorry if i botched the thread in the first place. my thoughts and questions about the topic are based off a few wiki articles, a few quote books from dalai lama, and some real basic overview picture-books of buddhism as a whole. haha

Not at all! This is tricky stuff and these are very good questions. You have to ask tough questions to clear up misconceptions.
 
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