is God sadistic??? Or is it just me?

[Roger Mexico]

What do YOU consider proof? This is a question based on the fact that each person is looking thru their own perception. What may seem proof enough for me, may not be for another.

*faith is a huge piece in Christianity....acknowledging certain proof may be lacking

Replicable scientific research.

Generally, I'm only willing to place my faith in the recurrence of something I've already witnessed or seen demonstrated. I have faith that the earth's rotation won't reversed while I'm asleep tonight, but that's mainly because I haven't seen that happen in 24 years on the planet. Faith in something you've never actually seen seems like denial of reality.

 

[GirlAmerica]

Man created religion...not God.

 

[Roger Mexico]

The bottom line is this:

Being a Christian requires only ONE THING....and nothing else.
No deeds nor rituals etc....

That one thing is to accept a gift.
Accepting the blood of the lamb to cover your sins and to gain entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. Accepting Jesus Christ as your savior. Period.

Meaning what? It's easy to say that, but when I ask how I would go about "accepting the gift" the answer always seems to involve a whole lot of ritual.

 

[Roger Mexico]

Man created religion...not God.

No, man also created God.

 

[GirlAmerica]

Replicable scientific research.

Generally, I'm only willing to place my faith in the recurrence of something I've already witnessed or seen demonstrated. I have faith that the earth's rotation won't reversed while I'm asleep tonight, but that's mainly because I haven't seen that happen in 24 years on the planet. Faith in something you've never actually seen seems like denial of reality.

There are many things science cannot explain.

Science actually supports many things in the Bible.
I supplied a link to a Theology based Church.
It is a thinking persons church....nothing radical at all.
All based on proof, science supporting theories, historical documentation supporting events etc.

I could accept nothing else myself.
C.S. Lewis is a same minded person. He wanted proof also...he tried to de-bunk Christianity as an Atheist. Instead, the PROOF was so compelling...he could not deny what he discovered. He now writes about that very subject AS A CHRISTIAN.

Xenos Christian Fellowship, Columbus, OH

Any teachings by Gary Delashmut are my favorites, followed by Dennis McCallum.

 

[GirlAmerica]

Meaning what? It's easy to say that, but when I ask how I would go about "accepting the gift" the answer always seems to involve a whole lot of ritual.

You pray, and you open your life to accepting the gift. You tell God, you request it. PERIOD.

You must be experiencing something like Catholicism.
And that my sweet....that is religion based.
It can be ugly stuff.....
I am saying nothing against Catholics.... There are some wonderful people who practice that religion. To each their own. Just isnt for ME.
The things that Catholics etc require.......are not in the Bible as a requirement.

 

[GirlAmerica]

Slavery to the Law: This refers to the bondage of trying to earn God’s acceptance by keeping his moral laws. This is the way of religion—including “Christian” religion—but it is a dead-end. Because God’s Law is moral perfection, it can only expose your violations and moral debt to God. Like runaway credit debt, it turns God into an enemy to fear—and there is no bankruptcy option.

The only liberation is redemption—God releasing you from this debt slavery by paying the debt himself. This is exactly what Jesus came to do (read Gal. 3:13). By living the perfect life that you owe God, and by voluntarily paying for your violations on the Cross, you are free forever from God’s judgment—once you personally receive this gift from him (read Acts 13:38,39)! This is what Paul was referring to in Gal. 5:1. This is what transform your relationship with God from slavish fear to security on his love (Rom. 8:15). Have you admitted your hopeless debt to God and asked Jesus to redeem you from this slavery? If not, this is the main point for you tonight . . .
GARY DELASHMUT
The "Backward" Widsom of God - Freedom and Slavery

 

[GirlAmerica]

No, man also created God.

Man has created many gods.....

 

[GirlAmerica]

How do we know anything historically? There is no "scientific" proof that Lincoln was the president. We cannot recreate him in a laboratory or bring him back to life. We cannot reproduce the experiment. We cannot calculate an equation that tells us that he was. But we can assert with a high degree of probability that Lincoln was indeed our president and was assassinated in 1865. We do this by appealing to historical evidence. Many people saw Lincoln. We have some of his writings and even his picture, not to mention his likeness on our pennies. But none of this "proves", in a scientific sense, that Lincoln ever lived or was the president.

The kind of evidence used in historical research is the same kind as that used in a court of law. In a courtroom case certain kinds of evidences are appealed to in order to determine what exactly happened, eyewitnesses are questioned, motives are examined, and physical evidence is scrutinized such as fingerprints or journal writings.

It is the same kind of evidence that we appeal to in order to establish Christ's life, death, and resurrection. Granted, the evidence is not as great as that for Lincoln, nor as recent. But it is better evidence than we have that Plato ever lived, or Homer, or many historical figures that we take for granted.

A link on historical evidence of the Resurrection of Christ etc.

Historical Evidence for the Resurrection

 

[sassafrassquatch]

The thing is, GirlAmerica, christians don't agree on anything and no christian's word carries more weight than another's.

I've asked this before and I'll ask it again: why is your god such a poor communicator?

 

[GirlAmerica]

The thing is, GirlAmerica, christians don't agree on anything and no christian's word carries more weight than another's.

I've asked this before and I'll ask it again: why is your god suck a poor communicator?

You are speaking again to RELIGION.

Amish, Catholics, Mormans, Quakers, Methodist etc.
This is all chosen cultural INTERPRETATION of the BIBLE....and used for other things in my opinion (manipulation etc).

You have God's communication. It is all there. One book.
You have to separate the Bible and religion.

Religion fucks it all up. And that is the truth.

*many things in the Bible predicted have come to pass.....and Revelations....
shew, that is some scary stuff right there boy. Especially when you look at the state of the world in comparison. To be honest, I am so terrified of it sometimes I choose to NOT read it, and stay in denial.....

 

[sassafrassquatch]

No I wasn't, I'm talking about personal interpretations of scripture.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Do you think there "must be something" to Scientology given the fact that it has millions of adherents? And it's only gotten that large in a few decades.

Christianity isn't a "legalistic cult"? Please clarify the difference, ideally with something besides "the Christian message is universal salvation, it's more than an organization," because I've known Scientologists who say the exact same thing.

There may be something to Scientology. That I do not know. However I wouldn't compare it to Christianity since it has neither the raw size nor longevity that Christianity does. It may be popular now, but die out in a few decades. We'll have to give it another 1000 years or so to see how it does.

I will say this for Scientology though. It does a better job of catching on than Atheism does.

 

[GirlAmerica]

Okay then...and I agree.
Many take it out of context, use it to support their purpose etc.

If you take the time to look at the links I provided, you will see that this is a church full of people JUST LIKE YOU. They require MORE than just being told.
The teachers (and there are many, I could teach if I wanted and earned it and so could you)are also looking for the same things you are looking for (you AND I).
They open up the context of the given PASSAGE/WORD and then support it with other passages in the Bible...even using differnet Bibles (KING JAMES/NIV) comparing the wording...........AND THEN (and this is the part that excites me) they go into language and historical reference of how that would fit in based on the TIME IT TRANSPIRED. Not our modern interpretion, not our societial standards and understanding of living and the world NOW.....but based on then and how it was in context THEN.
It changes GREATLY so many things........it is amazing.

That is why I am saying, there are so many 'Christians' who make people run for cover.
We do not fit under the same. Societies within societies.

*picture this: pens, notebooks, Bibles, coffee, donuts and jeans.

 

[sassafrassquatch]

There may be something to Scientology.

I will say this for Scientology though. It does a better job of catching on than Atheism does.

Nontheists are about 10% of the U.S. population and religion is withering away in Europe. Resistance is futile.

 

[GirlAmerica]

There may be something to Scientology. That I do not know. However I wouldn't compare it to Christianity since it has neither the raw size nor longevity that Christianity does. It may be popular now, but die out in a few decades. We'll have to give it another 1000 years or so to see how it does.

I will say this for Scientology though. It does a better job of catching on than Atheism does.

Yes, they are creating RELIGION out of positive thinking and net-working!

 

[GirlAmerica]

Nontheists are about 10% of the U.S. population and religion is withering away in Europe. Resistance is futile.

yes...it is going to continue...as revealed in Revelations.

 

[Roger Mexico]

There are many things science cannot explain..

And therefore anything that purports to explain those things must be true, regardless of its plausibility? Nope, sorry. I can deal with a little uncertainty in my life.

Science actually supports many things in the Bible.
I supplied a link to a Theology based Church.
It is a thinking persons church....nothing radical at all.
All based on proof, science supporting theories, historical documentation supporting events etc.

I could accept nothing else myself.
C.S. Lewis is a same minded person. He wanted proof also...he tried to de-bunk Christianity as an Atheist. Instead, the PROOF was so compelling...he could not deny what he discovered. He now writes about that very subject AS A CHRISTIAN.

Xenos Christian Fellowship, Columbus, OH

Any teachings by Gary Delashmut are my favorites, followed by Dennis McCallum.

Wow. No offense, but you did a good job of appearing not to be one of the kooky Christians up til this post.

You've already lost me at:

The 66 books which constitute the Bible are entirely reliable and truthful...

I'm a historian. No document is an "entirely reliable and truthful" description of anything. People are not perfect, and therefore the documents they produce cannot be perfect.

The Muslims actually have a better case here, since their book was literally written by God.

You pray, and you open your life to accepting the gift. You tell God, you request it. PERIOD.

Prayer is a ritual.

You must be experiencing something like Catholicism.
And that my sweet....that is religion based.
It can be ugly stuff.....
I am saying nothing against Catholics.... There are some wonderful people who practice that religion. To each their own. Just isnt for ME.
The things that Catholics etc require.......are not in the Bible as a requirement.

Nope. Methodism. Modern, liberal, "rational," North American United Methodism. 18 years. Baptized, confirmed, mission trips, youth groups, Sunday school, conferences and (ugh) "contemporary praise music."

Slowly but surely being infiltrated by quasi-Evangelical, "personal relationship," "commit your life to Christ" kooks. The rituals weren't what drove me out, it was the foofy "just open your heart" bullshit.

The thing that really drove me up the wall was the idea that it was somehow essentially different from Catholicism, which my very devout mother seems to have a lot of scorn for.

The idea that some guy was walking around 2000 years ago who was a living embodiment of God is not one bit less ridiculous than the idea that there's a guy on Earth right now who's been granted the position of ultimate authority over the administration of God's will. People trying to argue that they were being "rational" by believing one and not the other just reinforced how irrational the whole thing is to begin with.

Man has created many gods.....

But yours isn't one of them, and you know this how, exactly?

 

[sassafrassquatch]

Okay then...and I agree.
Many take it out of context, use it to support their purpose etc.

If you take the time to look at the links I provided, you will see that this is a church full of people JUST LIKE YOU. They require MORE than just being told.
The teachers (and there are many, I could teach if I wanted and earned it) are also looking for the same things you are looking for (you AND I).
They open up the context of the given PASSAGE/WORD and then support it with other passaged in the Bible...even using differnet Bibles (KING JAMES/NIV) comparing the wording...........AND THEN (and this is the part that excites me) they go into language and historical reference of how that would fit in based on the TIME IT TRANSPIRED. Not our modern interpretion, not our societial standards and understand of NOW.....but based on then and how it was in context THEN.
It changes GREATLY so many things........it is amazing.

That is why I am saying, there are so many 'Christians' who make people run for cover.
We do not fit under the same. Societies within societies.

*picture this: pens, notebooks, Bibles, coffee, donuts and jeans.

I don't care. If you read the rest of the thread you'll see I used to be a christian and I've already investigated and dismissed your god. If I'm wrong and he does exist I'd like to know but I don't care what he wants.

 

[Roger Mexico]

There may be something to Scientology. That I do not know. However I wouldn't compare it to Christianity since it has neither the raw size nor longevity that Christianity does. It may be popular now, but die out in a few decades. We'll have to give it another 1000 years or so to see how it does.

I will say this for Scientology though. It does a better job of catching on than Atheism does.

Irrelevant. Argumentum ad populum, a fallacy.