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INTP and hating religion.

Synarch

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wow!!!!

its not about god making sense according to my defintion, its about the defintion christians give being (1) a complete contradiction, and (2) a very horrible, very bad, very cruel idea

You can't group all Christians together. It is a spectrum with more diversity of belief and outlook than you can possibly imagine. Why do the ideas of this one person hold such sway? Are Christians all just dupes? Fools? Is Christianity just an effective mental virus?

I don't buy that.

It may not provide one monolithic Truth about humanity. But, as a belief system it does possess Truth.
 

onemoretime

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You can't group all Christians together. It is a spectrum with more diversity of belief and outlook than you can possibly imagine. Why do the ideas of this one person hold such sway? Are Christians all just dupes? Fools? Is Christianity just an effective mental virus?

I don't buy that.

It may not provide one monolithic Truth about humanity. But, as a belief system it does possess Truth.

Quod est veritas?
 

Synarch

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Jesus said "gehenna" a lot in the Gospels. Take that for what you will.

From wikipedia, sounds like "gehenna" is some badass trash dump from the Bible. This would be consistent with the Christian belief in the duality of flesh and spirit. When evil people die, they're trash, carcasses. When those who follow God die, their spirit persists in union with God?
 

Robert165

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You can't group all Christians together.
no, but i can point out what a horrible set of ideas they base their religion upon
I Are Christians all just dupes? Fools? Is Christianity just an effective mental virus?
i think foolish is a very good term to describe someone who believes a book full of what is essentilay, fairytales, combined with contradictions and logical and scientific impossibilites. not to mention all the violent, opppresive stuff in the OT and the very nasty underlying message of the NT.
 

onemoretime

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From wikipedia, sounds like "gehenna" is some badass trash dump from the Bible. This would be consistent with the Christian belief in the duality of flesh and spirit. When evil people die, they're trash, carcasses. When those who follow God die, their spirit persists in union with God?

Yeah, you run into that tricky thing called context there. Armageddon is just a site in the Levant, but then again, no one thinks of it that way, do they? So the question is whether your analogy is the correct one, or whether the analogy that caused the Vulgate to translate that as "infernus" is the correct one.
 

Robert165

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From wikipedia, sounds like "gehenna" is some badass trash dump from the Bible. This would be consistent with the Christian belief in the duality of flesh and spirit. When evil people die, they're trash, carcasses. When those who follow God die, their spirit persists in union with God?
or it could mean that the bible is "correct" and that hell is really full of fire and that this was the biggest nearby fire that jesus was able to use as a refrence point.
 

Synarch

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no, but i can point out what a horrible set of ideas they base their religion upon

So, not only are you an expert on religion enough to weigh in and evaluate an entire religion as a horrible set of ideas, you're also developed enough as a thinker and as a man to judge what is valid? Seems a mite arrogant. Do you feel that physical laws explain and account fully for the wonder and mystery of existence?

i think foolish is a very good term to describe someone who believes a book full of what is essentilay, fairytales, combined with contradictions and logical and scientific impossibilites. not to mention all the violent, opppresive stuff in the OT and the very nasty underlying message of the NT.

Fairytales can also contain great truths.
 

Robert165

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So, not only are you an expert on religion enough to weigh in and evaluate an entire religion as a horrible set of ideas, you're also developed enough as a thinker and as a man to judge what is valid? Seems a mite arrogant. Do you feel that physical laws explain and account fully for the wonder and mystery of existence?
you're calling me arrogant because I say it's cruel to send someone to hell and suffer forever becasue they don't believe in the christian god. wow.



Fairytales can also contain great truths.
such as? lets stick to the ones in the bible for the current discussion.
 

Synarch

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I would argue that you wouldn't really know it then, would you?

Funny that. I actually disagree.

Recent work on the unconscious tells us that we know and perceive many things unconsciously that we could never explain or understand with our conscious minds. Gut feelings are real. Intuition is real.

More and more we learn that what we call consciousness is just an afterthought tacked onto a vast reservoir of unconscious feelings, thoughts, and impulses. Things we know on some level, and yet on another entire level, we are completely blind to.

At any time, our mind is processing millions of pieces of stimuli both internal and external and yet we are only dimly consciously aware of just a sliver of what we experience.

So, it is patently obvious to me that we can "feel" something greater than what we can perceive consciously.
 

Synarch

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you're calling me arrogant because I say it's cruel to send someone to hell and suffer forever becasue they don't believe in the christian god. wow.

Your interpretation is false. But, how much time should I spend trying to correct you? Those with ears will listen.


such as? lets stick to the ones in the bible for the current discussion.

Try thinking about it seriously for more than a second.
 

onemoretime

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Funny that. I actually disagree.

Recent work on the unconscious tells us that we know and perceive many things unconsciously that we could never explain or understand with our conscious minds. Gut feelings are real. Intuition is real.

More and more we learn that what we call consciousness is just an afterthought tacked onto a vast reservoir of unconscious feelings, thoughts, and impulses. Things we know on some level, and yet on another entire level, we are completely blind to.

At any time, our mind is processing millions of pieces of stimuli both internal and external and yet we are only dimly consciously aware of just a sliver of what we experience.

So, it is patently obvious to me that we can "feel" something greater than what we can perceive consciously.

And yet, given this research, can we not objectively identify these things? Isn't our unconscious cognition simply the framing behind the conscious reality? One does not need to know the chemical composition of film, nor the physical properties of the lamp of the projector to enjoy the movie on the screen, do they? And yet, if they want to know such things, do they not exist within physical reality?
 

Synarch

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And yet, given this research, can we not objectively identify these things? Isn't our unconscious cognition simply the framing behind the conscious reality? One does not need to know the chemical composition of film, nor the physical properties of the lamp of the projector to enjoy the movie on the screen, do they? And yet, if they want to know such things, do they not exist within physical reality?

Maybe. Maybe not.

Can you tell what the software does by examining the transistors on the CPU?

The scientific method is reductive. Reductive thinking is necessarily narrow. It cannot leap forth into the unknown. It grasps around on its hands and knee like a blind wretch searching for discarded morsels.
 

Robert165

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Your interpretation is false. But, how much time should I spend trying to correct you? Those with ears will listen.
no, see, you have (1) heaven and (2) hell and then you die and where you go when you die depends upon the "choice" you made about god while alive.
 

Robert165

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The scientific method is reductive. Reductive thinking is necessarily narrow. It cannot leap forth into the unknown. It grasps around on its hands and knee like a blind wretch searching for discarded morsels.
yeah well it seems to provide a lot more answers than say, the bible, about the physical workings of the universe.
 

Synarch

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yeah well it seems to provide a lot more answers than say, the bible, about the physical workings of the universe.

The physical workings of the universe account for the entire scope of human existence?

Absolutely not.
 

Synarch

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you shame yourself by defending such a horrible set of ideas

I'm defending the right to believe in something without having someone judging what you believe as ignorant and ridiculous. As I said, I am not a Christian.

You are asserting nothing more than the right to decide what is reasonable to believe.
 
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