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INTP and hating religion.

Robert165

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For one, there's an important "if" in there. For another, if such a hell exists, people don't wind up there for disagreeing with me. Anyway, I think I'm going to take a break from this thread for a bit, in spite of all the good it seems to be doing.

really? you believe in christ, those in hell, don't.
 

BlackCat

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I always figured that these NTs who have something against religion hate it because they can't rationalize it.
 

sLiPpY

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Religion and rational in the same sentence? :rofl1:

Do you believe in God?

Do you believe in my God?

Do you believe in what I say about the nature of our God?

:duel:

Religious people eventually eliminate one another, so the non-believers don't have to.
 

sLiPpY

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Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a very good wiki entry on the history of hell in that it includes the etymology and cultural context for the ORIGINAL Greek.

Having a religious discussion can be very entertaining. A very small percentage of Americans are even aware of the Wisdom concepts, and Sophia. The Bible has three words for love which in the original Greek have three very differing meanings, where in the English language we only have one word for love.

In absence of etymology, much of the story and meaning are lost.
 

nozflubber

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I used to hate religion, but I don't anymore. It still isn't for me, but I've come to accept that many people have vacuums in their mind/soul/brain/moral center and in many cases Jesus or Buddha or what have you can fill this vacuum. Carl Jung once treated a man with severe alcoholism that desperatly wanted to quit but could not, so he gave him every treatment approach in the book and everything he could think of. After all those failed, he suggested that the man go out and explore religion. He did and he came back a few weeks later and had completely cut alcohol cold turkey - he found Jesus.

One thing I've had to come to terms with in studying Psych and Philosophy is that for some reason, which i cannot fathom but presuppose that it has to do with animation in general, human beings not only tend to believe things, but they NEED to. What a person needs to believe seems dependent upon their culture and social factors of course, but it also depends a great deal on their temperament - the XXFJs come to mind here. Sometimes religion affords for them belief systems and sentiments according that they could not achieve elsewhere. Those beliefs get more reinforced the more they are around others with similar needs and that "need", or hole, in their metaphysical system, gets filled in.

I also disagree that this has to do with intellectualism(s). Many intellectual giants and geniuses like Leibniz and Newton had absolutely no qualms about the notion of God - then again maybe that's because a mathematician knows God more intimately than any theist ever could. It's about human beliefs, not thinking/feeling/understanding capacities.
 
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Sniffles

Guest
It can easily be argued that religion is a part of human nature, and one that fundamentally seperates us from animals, since animals don't have rudimentary forms of religious experiences.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
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Actually you're wrong. The ones that stick towards orthodox beliefs tend to outlive those Christians that simply follow prevailing trends. I guess the best example known example would be the liberal Christians who supported fascist movements and eugenics in the early 20th century.

I'm not talking about specific sects of Christianity staying popular or not, I'm talking about the shifting of views within all of Christianity over the years. The fundamentalist Christian of today, for example, is less bigoted than that of 50 years ago. Concerning race, gender roles, homosexuality, marriage, society etc... Christians as a whole slowly become more liberal in their thinking as time goes by, mirroring the rest of society, but behind it. The South isn't as racist as it once was, and probably never will be. Of course there is still a lot of backwards thinking, but the trend is moving away from it.
 

ajblaise

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Once again ajblaise focuses exclusively on fundamentalism.

Take any branch of Christianity, and my point still applies; even more so with non-fundamentalist branches becoming more liberal.
 
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Sniffles

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At best your view would apply only to post-WWII era and the rise of the Baby Boomer generation.
 

ajblaise

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At best your view would apply only to post-WWII era and the rise of the Baby Boomer generation.

Why wouldn't it apply pre-WWII exactly? Take civil war era Christians and compare them to WWI era Christians, and the latter will be more liberal in their views, like on slavery. Not necessarily political liberalism, but in the more general sense about attitudes and beliefs.
 
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Sniffles

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Why wouldn't it apply pre-WWII exactly? Take civil war era Christians and compare them to WWI era Christians, and the later will be more liberal in their views, like on slavery. Not necessarily political liberalism, but in the more general sense about attitudes and beliefs.

On that score I guess the Medieval Christian was far more "liberal" than the Civil War era Christian:
"But fighting slavery is nothing new for Christians. After all, Christianity was born into a world where chattel slavery, one person owning another, was the cornerstone of the economy.

Ironically, many famous historians, including those most critical of Christianity, were indifferent about the role that slavery played in antiquity. Edward Gibbon called the "cruel treatment" of slaves "almost justified by the great law of self-preservation."

Western Christianity saw matters differently. Its spread through western Europe was accompanied by calls for an end to chattel slavery. Saint Bathilde, the wife of the seventh-century Frankish king Clovis, was canonized, in part, for her efforts to free slaves and end the slave trade.

The result of hers and similar efforts was that, by the eleventh century, slavery had been effectively abolished in western Europe.
The lone exceptions were areas under pagan or Muslim control. By the time Thomas Aquinas wrote the Summa Theologica in the thirteenth century, slavery was a thing of the distant past. That's why Aquinas paid little attention to the subject, devoting himself instead to the issue of serfdom, which he considered "repugnant.""

Christianity and Slavery
 

Robert165

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but the bible implores slaves to obey their masters. so any good christian that is against slavery is on the worng side of the issue.
 
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Sniffles

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but the bible implores slaves to obey their masters. so any good christian that is against slavery is on the worng side of the issue.

The Bible also states that masters need to treat their slaves respectfully and with care, since they are created in God's image as anyother man. And as the historical record shows, Christians have fought against slavery or at the very least its abuses. Nice try with the sound bytes.
 

Robert165

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The Bible also states that masters need to treat their slaves respectfully and with care, since they are created in God's image as anyother man. And as the historical record shows, Christians have fought against slavery or at the very least its abuses. Nice try with the sound bytes.
its not a sound byte
its what the bible says
chrisitans should try to make slavery as bening as possible
not, crusade against it
 

ajblaise

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The Bible also states that masters need to treat their slaves respectfully and with care, since they are created in God's image as anyother man. And as the historical record shows, Christians have fought against slavery or at the very least its abuses. Nice try with the sound bytes.

It's true that both pro-slavery advocates and slavery abolitionists have used the Bible to support their view. But in the overall curve from early Christianity until now, we see slavery as an institution being rarely criticized at first, and then universally forbid. So it's become more liberal over time.

The Bible also states that masters need to treat their slaves respectfully and with care, since they are created in God's image as anyother man.

... like that makes it excusable at all. Old Testament morals are completely backwards.
 
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Sniffles

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It's true that both pro-slavery advocates and slavery abolitionists have used the Bible to support their view. But in the overall curve from early Christianity until now, we see slavery as an institution being rarely criticized at first, and then universally forbid. So it's become more liberal over time.
If that's your serious argument, then you have a shitload of questions to answer.

so, according to you, whats stated in the bible is "fuh fuh fuh"
Are you even fucking serious here?
 

ayoitsStepho

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Why does it even matter?
Why do people care so much about what Christians believe or not?
If Christians are wrong, well then they really have nothing to lose in believing and trusting in God. But what if they're right? Then its really non-believers who have more to lose than a Christian if they're wrong.
People may think Christians are ignorant or stupid, but what if they're right? What if everything in the Bible is completely true?
 
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