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INTP and hating religion.

Robert165

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257
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The physical workings of the universe account for the entire scope of human existence?

Absolutely not.
ok, you can have religion. i'll stick with modern medicine, modern science, psychology, psychiatry and modern applainces.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
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Maybe. Maybe not.

Can you tell what the software does by examining the transistors on the CPU?

The scientific method is reductive. Reductive thinking is necessarily narrow. It cannot leap forth into the unknown. It grasps around on its hands and knee like a blind wretch searching for discarded morsels.

You can if given both the nature of the transistors and the pattern of the electrical current, can't you?

At the same time, when grasping on to those morsels, it can put them together in ways that are both regular and predictable, leading to unforeseen uses for things once thought particularly common and dull. Right now, I'm looking at the polywell reactor as the potentially greatest expression of this principle.
 

Synarch

Once Was
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ok, you can have religion. i'll stick with modern medicine, modern science, psychology, psychiatry and modern applainces.

You can have your close-mindedness. It suits you.

As for modern science, your faith in it also suits you. This was once considered modern science:

phrenology.jpg
 

Synarch

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You can if given both the nature of the transistors and the pattern of the electrical current, can't you?

At the same time, when grasping on to those morsels, it can put them together in ways that are both regular and predictable, leading to unforeseen uses for things once thought particularly common and dull. Right now, I'm looking at the polywell reactor as the potentially greatest expression of this principle.

My point is that dividing reality up into tiny observable bits only takes you part of the way in discovering essential truths of existence.
 

Robert165

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I'm defending the right to believe in something without having someone judging what you believe as ignorant and ridiculous. As I said, I am not a Christian.
but it is ignorant and ridiulous. not to mention hostile.

You are asserting nothing more than the right to decide what is reasonable to believe.
yeah, its quite unresoanble to say that everyone who doesnt think like you deserves to go to hell land suffer forever. i have no problem at all saying that.
 

onemoretime

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The physical workings of the universe account for the entire scope of human existence?

Absolutely not.

We still have barely scratched the surface as to what the physical workings of the universe are. In my mind, if there are gods, they are pantheistic. The monotheistic concept of an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent god is by nature impossible outside of this concept.
 

Synarch

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but it is ignorant and ridiulous. not to mention hostile.

Again, you are making some claim to judge what is ridiculous?

yeah, its quite unresoanble to say that everyone who doesnt think like you deserves to go to hell land suffer forever. i have no problem at all saying that.

From whence springs your axe to grind? Is your Dad super religious?
 

onemoretime

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My point is that dividing reality up into tiny observable bits only takes you part of the way in discovering essential truths of existence.

As far as I'm concerned, the essential truth of existence is that we exist. Any further inquiry in the absence of hard evidence leads one down the road of solipsism, which we all can agree is a dead end, right?
 

Synarch

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We still have barely scratched the surface as to what the physical workings of the universe are. In my mind, if there are gods, they are pantheistic. The monotheistic concept of an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent god is by nature impossible outside of this concept.

So, at least you allow for the possibility of something METAPHYSICAL?
 

Owl

desert pelican
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Feb 23, 2008
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Why, if God seems to emphasize one's eternal soul over the temporary physical realm? Again. I'm young and confused and not a Christian. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and die an agonizing death, and then burn in agonizing hellfire for eternity because of your theory. Physical death is such an arbitrary deadline.

Here's a list of other people who would burn in everlasting hellfire:

1) those in the wrong place/wrong time to learn to accept Christ
2) those who did good in the world but did not dedicate their good works to Christ
3) Babies and young children who died without an understanding of Christ
4) Older people who, through whatever mental deficiencies, could not accept Christ
5) People with a crises of faith who just happened to die in the middle of it

Wow, that seems awfully unjust. I don't think I could love a God who would do that. Perhaps I will just have to martyr myself after death and burn in agonizing hellfire forever for my beliefs.

1, 2, & 5 assume there isn't a clear general revelation in view of which men are without excuse for their unbelief.

3 & 4 are more difficult, and are probably among those things that cannot be known without additional revelation. God could save such persons, but would he? I like to think he does.
 

Robert165

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You can have your close-mindedness. It suits you.
oh yeah, i'm just so close minded becasue i dont like being told i'm going to hell becasue i dont beleive in christ. yeah, that makes me such an incredibly close minded person. :huh:

As for modern science, your faith in it also suits you. This was once considered modern science.
science allows for it to correct itself.
 

onemoretime

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So, at least you allow for the possibility of something METAPHYSICAL?

I am a P, you know. I just think it's particularly unlikely... and that if there is a metaphysical aspect to existence, that the likelihood of its comprehension within the physical plane is so unlikely as to be negligible. Consequently, I can do much more to benefit the lives of others by concentrating on what tangibly and empirically exists rather than chase after some metaphysical phantom.

To clarify further - if there does exist a metaphysical pantheistic concept, then it is so intertwined with physical existence as to be considered a constant, such as c.
 

Robert165

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I am a P, you know. I just think it's particularly unlikely... and that if there is a metaphysical aspect to existence, that the likelihood of its comprehension within the physical plane is so unlikely as to be negligible. Consequently, I can do much more to benefit the lives of others by concentrating on what tangibly and empirically exists rather than chase after some metaphysical phantom.
if there is a metaphysical realm the only way you could document it would be in some objective fashion. thats why we don't believe in ghosts or ESP. Until something is documented it's noting more than delusion or sensation.
 

Synarch

Once Was
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I am a P, you know. I just think it's particularly unlikely... and that if there is a metaphysical aspect to existence, that the likelihood of its comprehension within the physical plane is so unlikely as to be negligible. Consequently, I can do much more to benefit the lives of others by concentrating on what tangibly and empirically exists rather than chase after some metaphysical phantom.

I think of things like this:

Our brains are composed of networks of neurons and our thoughts are chemical interchanges in some fashion inside our brain. Everything we are and experience takes place inside our brains and yet you would be hard pressed to capture a consciousness simply by analyzing the physical structures. In a real way, even though consciousness is detectable and perceivable in some way, it also lacks reality. Just as a Word can exist as an idea held in our collective minds and yet not exist. Ideas exist and exert power in the physical world. Is it possible a god-like consciousness exists as a pattern that emanates in some fashion within the structure of reality much like a thought or idea? To me, while it is tied to the physical world it is also highly metaphysical.

I guess this all goes back to Platonic duality. Idealism.
 

Synarch

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if there is a metaphysical realm the only way you could understand it would be in some sujective fashion. thats why we don't believe in ghosts or ESP. Until something is documented it's noting more than delusion or sensation.

Document, capture, and explain the feeling of Romantic love.
 

Robert165

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Document, capture, and explain the feeling of Romantic love.
BTW, i had to edit my above post
and i'm not even going to bother comparing
a basic emotion like love or jealousy
to an unproven idea like "heaven"
or ESP or ghosts
 

Synarch

Once Was
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Messages
8,445
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BTW, i had to edit my above post
and i'm not even going to bother comparing
a basic emotion like love or jealousy
to an unproven idea like "heaven"
or ESP or ghosts

Does Romantic love exist? Is Love just a chemical transmission when you want to fuck someone's brains out?
 
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