• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Ancestory, Ancestor Worship, Ancestoral Memory

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
I wondered if this was significant for anyone, interested anyone or if they'd thought about it, I've read about it but mainly in the context of superstition and its rejection as associated greatly with fear.

On the other hand it is bound to be important to any conservative inclination in the broadest possible sense of respect for the enduring and organic within society and its often unacknowledge and vital role in individual and social functioning, well being and competence.

I read a little known author once who suggested that all political questions from the time of the Greeks related to the transmission of information, particularly experience from one generation to another, the most successful society being those that could manage this to the greatest effect and its obvious the role that ancestory would play there.

However, on the other hand, I've read compelling or persuasive accounts which suggest that all that really exists is the present, that the past is constructed and invented in the present, with the service of someone or something in the present in mind.

The idea also calls to mind the Orwellian idea that who controls the past, controls the future, who controls the present controls the past. I hope I've got that right, I am trying to recall itand its not perfect, I hope you get the idea :)
 

Hirsch63

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
524
MBTI Type
IS??
There's an entire on-line industry based on this: genealogical research. Much of it used to be free and run by generous volunteers. People have an interest or strong need to know where they came from many wish to know what famous, noble or infamous person is their ancestor. They seek to put the family stories to the test of research...

On the practical side you can learn a bit about your ancestral medical history, reasons for migration, religion or economic progress...it becomes a never ending puzzle of discovery...
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I'm extremely fascinated by the idea of ancestral memories, and think it is the reason why some people think they remember a "past life." I think it may serve to explain why people are drawn to certain places that they've never been, or to different cultures from the past.
 

Hirsch63

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
524
MBTI Type
IS??
I'm extremely fascinated by the idea of ancestral memories...why some people think they remember a "past life."...people are drawn to certain places that they've never been

I've often wondered too if we descendants retuned to those lands where our ancestors lingered longest, would we find the weather more agreeable, the water more satisfying....would we have less or no allergies? I hope to travel central europe someday and give it a try....
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
I've often wondered too if we descendants retuned to those lands where our ancestors lingered longest, would we find the weather more agreeable, the water more satisfying....would we have less or no allergies? I hope to travel central europe someday and give it a try....

Better make it the African savanna. Just sayin'
 

Kingfisher

full of love
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
1,685
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
I've often wondered too if we descendants retuned to those lands where our ancestors lingered longest, would we find the weather more agreeable, the water more satisfying....would we have less or no allergies? I hope to travel central europe someday and give it a try....

i have a pretty strong instinctual pull to the American southwest, where my mother's family and ancestors are from, especially New Mexico. it always feels very calm when i am there.

ancestory is very important to my mother's family. i have never experienced anything like ancestoral memory, but i do feel very connected to my ancestory. i could never turn my back on it - and i guess more than that, i do feel a need to embrace it. so i do feel a sense of duty to my ancestors.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I'm really drawn to the British isles and central/Eastern Europe.
 

BlueSprout

/X\(:: :: )/X\
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
571
MBTI Type
pfni
Enneagram
4
It's a shame that anthropological writing has and often continues to exoticize and misconstrue ancestor worship/reverence in other cultures.

The little known author makes a compelling point about the transmission of knowledge, though tracing the development of human societies as a unilinear progression from the ancient Greeks is a flawed approach. I think that the fact that the knowledge is not replicated exactly over time is actually an asset to a society. Knowledge has to be flexible enough to fit the challenges and new possibilities of every generation. If it couldn't be adapted, fused with new ideas, and picked over for its most momentarily salient aspects then it would be useless knowledge. There are things my ancestors believed and ideas they generated that I could probably do without. That said, reverence for elders and ancestors who shaped the conventions, knowledge and wisdom passed down through generations and the (critical) contemplation of their contributions can be highly useful for a society as a whole.

On a personal note, I've been drawn to the parts of Europe where my ancestors originated and hope to visit some day. On the other hand, I already feel connected to my ancestors in because of who I am. Sometimes when I'm cooking or gardening I look down at my hands and feel some sort of connection to the generations of women before me who had stubby, small fingers and veiny hands that washed potatoes, etc. I wonder if they ever looked down at their hands when they were older and were surprised to see their grandmothers' hands or mothers' hands doing their work.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
I don't know, my family seems drawn to more northern United States. Their best years were spent there. Apparently some of my immigrant predecessors took the route through Canada into the US instead of going the traditional route, through Ellis Island.

If I were to go where my family "originated," would I go to Russia, Austria, or Israel?
 

Blackmail!

Gotta catch you all!
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
3,020
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
If I were to go where my family "originated," would I go to Russia, Austria, or Israel?

Maybe you could try somewhere between Chad and Kenya instead? :jew:

Sahelanthropus tchadensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

---

Anyway.

A friend of mine tried to make genealogical researches in northern Poland, and the answer of the local authorities was rather... disturbing. According to them, Jews could never be considered as Poles ("True Poles = Catholic only", that what they said), and thus you have no trace of them, according to official records. The former Jewish graveyard has been razed not by Nazis, but by the Polish government some 30 years ago. Everything has been meticulously erased, and nobody seems to remember that the new town hall was built in lieu of the old synagogue. All that remains of centuries of continuous jewish presence are a few broken tombstones, stored in a derelict warehouse in the outskirts of the city.

A very depressing sight.

Unfortunately, Antisemitism is still rather prevalent in some parts of Eastern Europe, even if it has become almost Judenrein.
You might, just like me, have very bad surprises if you try to know the truth.

In his famous book "Landscape and Memory" (1), Simon Schama relates a very similar experience when he tried to find the exact location of the shtetl where his family had lived during centuries in Lithuania.
Actually, the locals threatened him!
And nothing, absolutely nothing remains. :sad:

---

(1) "Landscape and Memory", Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1995, pp. 652
 
Last edited:

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I don't know, my family seems drawn to more northern United States. Their best years were spent there. Apparently some of my immigrant predecessors took the route through Canada into the US instead of going the traditional route, through Ellis Island.

If I were to go where my family "originated," would I go to Russia, Austria, or Israel?

I would go to Russia, but that's just me.
 

Blackmail!

Gotta catch you all!
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
3,020
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
I would go to Russia, but that's just me.

Despite Haider and the FPÖ, Austrians have learned to be rather friendly with Jews and outsiders, plus Vienna is a superb city.

Russians, on the other hand, are not *THAT* friendly, that's the least that can be said.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Despite Haider and the FPÖ, Austrians have learned to be rather friendly with Jews and outsiders, plus Vienna is a superb city.

Russians, on the other hand, are not *THAT* friendly, that's the least that can be said.

I know. One of my math professors is from Russia and he told me about it. I used to talk to him quite a bit.

I'm just fascinated by Russia. It's probably not a good time to visit, though.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Despite Haider and the FPÖ, Austrians have learned to be rather friendly with Jews and outsiders, plus Vienna is a superb city.

Russians, on the other hand, are not *THAT* friendly, that's the least that can be said.

That's a very good point.

On the other hand I was mostly talking about the 'allergy' thing. As much as I love where I live now, the air and food are not very kind to me.
 

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
2,805
MBTI Type
INFJ
I wondered if this was significant for anyone, interested anyone or if they'd thought about it, I've read about it but mainly in the context of superstition and its rejection as associated greatly with fear.
My family has really gotten into genealogical research and I personally find plenty of value in it. We've got an unbelievable amount of teachers and preachers, which has been an interesting find.

i have a pretty strong instinctual pull to the American southwest, where my mother's family and ancestors are from, especially New Mexico. it always feels very calm when i am there.

ancestory is very important to my mother's family. i have never experienced anything like ancestoral memory, but i do feel very connected to my ancestory. i could never turn my back on it - and i guess more than that, i do feel a need to embrace it. so i do feel a sense of duty to my ancestors.
I can relate to that strong connection.

The greater part of my family's most immediate history rest in the Southern states of Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina and Virgina. We can trace our immediate, and not so immediate, roots to West Africa, S. Ireland, E&W Germany, the Hopi tribe, and possibly the Cherokee. I'm fascinated by indigenous cultures around the globe, and drawn to those places.
 

PuddleRiver

It's always something...
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,923
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5w6
I'm English, ScotsIrish, French and German with a bit of Cherokee (isn't everyone?lol) and Navajo Indian. (one of my great,great grandaddies was a wee bit of a slut, I think).

Dontcha just love mutts?
 

Kingfisher

full of love
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
1,685
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
I can relate to that strong connection.

The greater part of my family's most immediate history rest in the Southern states of Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina and Virgina. We can trace our immediate, and not so immediate, roots to West Africa, S. Ireland, E&W Germany, the Hopi tribe, and possibly the Cherokee. I'm fascinated by indigenous cultures around the globe, and drawn to those places.

yes, i am very drawn to indigenous cultures too.
my wife and i are both part of indigenous groups. my wife is Mayan. her recent family is from Mexico, and she was raised in Mexican culture, but her ancestors are all Mayan. and my wife's parents even liked the word Maya so much that they named her (my wife) Maya!

i am half Comanche, native american. and i am a "card-carrying Indian". in the USA, law requires you to prove your ancestory to become a member of a native american tribe. you usually have to prove you have at least 1/4 indian blood, but for some tribes you have to prove more, or that you are related to specific family trees. once you prove your heritage, you get issued a CDIB card which "officially proves" you are an indian.

it is pretty ridiculous, because anybody who can't trace their family roots can't become a member of a native american tribe. so there are native americans who have no family records, and without records the government doesn't allow them to become members of their tribe.
 

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
2,805
MBTI Type
INFJ
yes, i am very drawn to indigenous cultures too.
my wife and i are both part of indigenous groups. my wife is Mayan. her recent family is from Mexico, and she was raised in Mexican culture, but her ancestors are all Mayan. and my wife's parents even liked the word Maya so much that they named her (my wife) Maya!
That's beautiful. I love the name Maya. My husband's grandmother is a full blooded member of an indigenous South American tribe, and my ex step-sister moved to Australia, married an euro Australian, but she and her husband adopted a little girl who is an aboriginal Australian(and actually, not so little anymore).

i am half Comanche, native american. and i am a "card-carrying Indian". in the USA, law requires you to prove your ancestory to become a member of a native american tribe. you usually have to prove you have at least 1/4 indian blood, but for some tribes you have to prove more, or that you are related to specific family trees. once you prove your heritage, you get issued a CDIB card which "officially proves" you are an indian.

it is pretty ridiculous, because anybody who can't trace their family roots can't become a member of a native american tribe. so there are native americans who have no family records, and without records the government doesn't allow them to become members of their tribe.
Yes, it is very difficult for many to prove much of any of their ancestry. The Cherokee Freedman drama has turned a lot of people that we know off from even searching through the records and trying to get official membership. My great-great grandmother was a card carrier(Hopi), but also grew up on reservation. The Cherokee, along with the African, has been the most difficult to pull records. We can't determine where in W.Africa our slave ancestors originated; although, we're fortunate that we've even been able to trace specific slaves in our family-a few of whom were just named "Baby".
 
Top