Sin and MBTI

[Ruthie]

Christian.
Barely know who Joel Osteen is.
Can't hate church ladies... they're kind of endearing in their sincerity. And I like their hats.

 

[cafe]

I haven't read anything by Joel Olsteen. Know next to nothing about him, but I have this instinctive dislike for almost anyone who writes the latest and greatest Christian self-help book, so I kind of hate him on principle.

 

[Owl]

Am I the only Christian here who hates Joel Olsteen? Yeah and church ladies, hate them too with a passion.

If by "hate" you mean "thinks that what he teaches is false and harmful," then no, you aren't the only Christian here that hates Joel Osteen.

 

[Thalassa]

Well, and church ladies . . . they are in every church, probably something like them in any organization anywhere you go. They suck for real. I guess they are just unhappy and want to spread it around. I'd say try to avoid/ignore them as much as possible and if you get enough of it, challenge them in some way. Sometimes people are bullies and the only thing they respect is pushing back at them.

A lot of people just parrot stuff they've heard on TBN or read in the latest Joel Olsteen book or whatever without thinking much about it: ignore.

Disliking Church Ladies is a wonderful topic to bring up ... because while they're telling you that you're being sinful for being emotional or unmotivated, they're committing the sins of pride, arrogance, judgement....see? Sin comes is all shapes and sizes, and no one is excused. That's why forgiveness is necessary. None of us are blameless.

 

[cafe]

LOL.

Yes and then I'm sinning by thinking they are evil old biddies and I also have this nagging fear that I will be one someday (or maybe I already am one, except not as wrinkly). It's all very . . . sinny.

 

[Sniffles]

Indeed, transforming faith into third-rate Dr. Phil self-help BS alone is enough reason to be suspicious of somebody's teaching.

Disliking Church Ladies is a wonderful topic to bring up ... because while they're telling you that you're being sinful for being emotional or unmotivated, they're committing the sins of pride, arrogance, judgement....see? Sin comes is all shapes and sizes, and no one is excused. That's why forgiveness is necessary. None of us are blameless.

Looks like a naughty sinner here needs a dose of Church Chat:
[youtube="z-ByoJ7amKs"]Church Chat w/ Church Lady[/youtube]

 

[Ruthie]

Eh, most of 'em are well-meaning enough. Careful not to make them too 2-dimensional.

[church ladies, not the Joel Osteen types]

 

[ayoitsStepho]

I'm going to answer your post when I get on tomorrow and have time to reply thoroughly.
I'll leave you with this though: God judges whats in your heart, your intentions. I truly believe that God has mercy on those who didn't know such things were sin [if they are sin] and those who truly want to change-even if time and time again they fail. He will forgive us for the same thing over and over again. I think you can be truly sorry, but temptations can get the best of us some times and thats where He cames in and picks us up and puts us on the right path. We may fall of that path several times because of the same issue, but He will not leave you to your demise. He'll pick you up, brush you off and away you go again.

I'll continue tomorrow though. Goodnight dear,

 

[Totenkindly]

OP: Wow.

It's a toxic environment.

I totally get the talk about sin, spent a lot of time there.
If you don't want to displease God, a natural response is to try to avoid doing "bad things."

The trouble is that it's not about following a list of rules.

Think about the perfect mom or dad.
Do you want the parent who has a list of rules that act like a yoke upon your shoulders and bear you down to the ground under the weight of it?
Or do you want a parent who senses your good intent, inspires you to do positive things and be fully who you are, and encourages you to change rather than threatening to punish you every time you "break one of a zillion rules?"

The church lady approach seems typical as an "entry" into religion, but living a good life and being loving and pleasing God will take you far past that entry point.

 

[evilrobot]

Sin comes is all shapes and sizes, and no one is excused. That's why forgiveness is necessary. None of us are blameless.

Of course, someone as decadent as yourself would have to take that position.

Seriously, though, the obvious problem is that the definition of sin is highly subjective, which is why these arguments are tedious.

 

[Argus]

briochick, I was once apart of a church that started portraying the same conclusions.

This is not a problem with Christianity but with the church. What they're doing is religious.

Martin Luther rightly said that, as sinners, we are prone to pursue a relationship with God in one of two ways. The first is religion/spirituality and the second is the gospel. The two are antithetical in every way.

Religion says that if we obey God He will love us. The gospel says that it is because God has loved us through Jesus that we can "obey".

Religion says that the world is filled with good people and bad people. The gospel says that the world is filled with bad people who are either repentant or unrepentant.

Religion says that you should trust in what you do as a good moral person. The gospel says that you should trust in Jesus because he is the only good and truly moral person who will ever live.

Religion is about what I have to do. The gospel is about what I get to do. Religion sees hardship in life as punishment from God. The gospel sees hardship in life as sanctifying affliction that reminds us of Jesus’ sufferings and is used by God in love to make us more like Jesus. Religion is about me. The gospel is about Jesus.

Religion leads to an uncertainty about my standing before God because I never know if I have done enough to please God. The gospel leads to a certainty about my standing before God because of the finished work of Jesus on my behalf.

Religion ends in either pride (because I think I am better than other people) or despair (because I continually fall short of God’s commands). The gospel ends in humble and confident joy because of the power of Jesus' life for me, in me, through me, and sometimes in spite of me.

I normally wouldn't use this amount of Christianeese, but I figure you're used to it and can digest it. Like a slum child building up anti-bodies to bacteria. Because Christianeese is equivalent to bacteria.

Now go read some Kierkegaard and tell the people at that church to suck it.

 

[Sniffles]

Religion and the Gospel are opposites?

 

[Argus]

Religion and the Gospel are opposites?

Indeed. It's a very profound misconception.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

Well the religion seems to be based on rules,
where the gospel is based on relationship with Jesus/God.

Argus, that was all beautifully put.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Owl]

Religion and the Gospel are opposites?

Indeed. It's a very profound misconception.

 

[cafe]

Peguy, it's an Evangelical thing. We like to think we aren't religious because we give the word negative connotations. If you look at the way he defines 'religious' I think we can agree we aren't supposed to be religious in that way. Maybe?

 

[Sniffles]

It's basically just fideism; which as a Catholic I can't support.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

Oh, thats right. Peguy your catholic yes?
Yeah, there's a bit of a difference between the catholic belief and the evangelical belief.
Actually, I'd say there are several things that make them quite different.

 

[Argus]

Fideism is where Kierkegaard and I disagree and Peguy I do agree.
Being fideistic is not an evangelical thing but an individual thing.
It also has nothing to do with the OP, which I think we should concentrate on, despite how interesting the potential discussion can be.

Argus, that was all beautifully put.

I now have an equal amount of counter-statements in relation to my supposed "density".
Thank you, ayoits.

 

[Sniffles]

Yes there's alot of differences between Catholicism and Evangelicalism; which I really don't wish to get into at this hour. There is a sorta evangelical undercurrent within Catholicism with the chariasmatic movement. There's also the writings of Pascal.


Concerning Kierkegaard, many of his friends actually speculated that had he lived longer he might've converted to Catholicism.

"High Church" Protestants - like Anglicans and Lutherans for example, are probably the closest to Catholicism.