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Battling with existentialism

O

Oberon

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If you need a god to find happiness, go for it. Some people need A/C while others can handle the weather just fine by themselves.

If you're going to bet that big, be certain. You may very well have an uncomfortable time explaining that comment to God one day.
 

swordpath

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I don't know that it's a God that I need for happiness (depending on how you want to define god), but I need something larger than a big, fat question mark. How can you prioritize your life, when you don't know what really holds value and what doesn't? I don't have the capacity to do this for myself, because at the back of my mind, the ultimate questions will still be there. I'll always be second guessing myself and others. How can I be content and at peace with that internal conflict going on?

The questions of existence haven't been answered with answers that are absolute... To continue searching for them, isn't it a bit naive to believe that I'd find them, considering no one else has? After all, truth is just a claim. Anything that's been "discovered" thus far is pretty minuscule when looking at the bigger picture... Or, maybe the answers have been found, but they can't be proven. It doesn't make much difference.

Faith is out. I possess none of it.
 

Katsuni

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I highly recommend Camus' "The Stranger" for a start :)

Hated the stranger with SUCH a passion. Worst book I EVER read.

Seriously, just because it has a message, doesn't mean yeu're allowed to butcher it with pathetic writing >.>

Horrible novel that uses "it's a work of hard lulz" as an excuse for its' mediocrity.



That being said, a much better, and more effective choice of books, would be Siddhartha.





If you need a god to find happiness, go for it. Some people need A/C while others can handle the weather just fine by themselves.

If you're going to bet that big, be certain. You may very well have an uncomfortable time explaining that comment to God one day.

This assumes god exists fully, and even then, the point still stands. People need to believe in SOMETHING in order to survive the insanity of life. It doesn't matter if they believe in god, themselves, their family, or a giant flying sock golem in outer space that shoots bananas out of its' ears.

So long as there is belief, there is hope. Once hope is completely gone, with nothing left to fall back on... then they are already dead, even if they're still technically breathing.

If there is a god worth worshiping, I'm sure they'll understand that someone had issues with the whole blind faith in nil for solid evidence, so long as that person tried to understand the best they could. There's literally THOUSANDS of religions, all of which claim to be "the one true god". Seriously, pick a random number between 1 and 10,000. If yeu pick the wrong one YEU BURN IN HELL FOREVER. I'd like to believe that there's a bit more to it than that, and that even athiests, if they did their best to understand the information provided to them, could not be expected to believe the unbelievable. Why create a being whose mind is more logical and requiring evidence and solid proof, then condemn them for those very same traits? Such is not the work of a god worthy of worship, but of an arrogant little brat of whom I would refuse to worship even if I had solid evidence for existence. I will not tolerate injustice simply because of a threat of retribution. If that were how god really worked, he can go to hell himself after he makes it.

However, I'd like to believe that this isn't how a being who is supposedly smarter than I am thinks. I'd be kind of sad if I were better than god himself. I don't think my ego could take that, it'd explode.

That being said, there may, or may not, come a day of explanation. If they understand why they said the comment, and can back it up, I don't think they'll go wrong. We can only base our decisions on the information given us, and the evidence presented. We can bicker over interpretation of the evidence we have, but it's just that... interpretation; personal in nature. Noone will ever interpret EVERYTHING right. That they at least attempted to, instead of blindly following whot they were told is likely going to be more important than those with blind faith who 'got it right' but for the wrong reasons.
 

swordpath

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If there is a god worth worshiping, I'm sure they'll understand that someone had issues with the whole blind faith in nil for solid evidence, so long as that person tried to understand the best they could. There's literally THOUSANDS of religions, all of which claim to be "the one true god". Seriously, pick a random number between 1 and 10,000. If yeu pick the wrong one YEU BURN IN HELL FOREVER. I'd like to believe that there's a bit more to it than that, and that even athiests, if they did their best to understand the information provided to them, could not be expected to believe the unbelievable. Why create a being whose mind is more logical and requiring evidence and solid proof, then condemn them for those very same traits? Such is not the work of a god worthy of worship, but of an arrogant little brat of whom I would refuse to worship even if I had solid evidence for existence. I will not tolerate injustice simply because of a threat of retribution. If that were how god really worked, he can go to hell himself after he makes it.
My stance EXACTLY.

Even if the God that condemns lost souls to hell exists, I wouldn't follow or acknowledge him for the life of me. I'd rather burn in hell. Humans - simple creatures, logical beings. Can we really be expected to live and follow blindly, on faith alone? Is there really wrath reserved towards those of us that can't/don't? I don't want to have anything to do with it.
 

antireconciler

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Faith is out. I possess none of it.

Have faith in reason then. You have an inquisitive mind, that should make sense enough.

Some nice reward in heaven sounds appealing if not for the fact that it doesn't make sense to you, so you put your foot down and say that if it doesn't make sense, it isn't real, even if it had some semblance of being tempting. That took faith in the rational process you believe in, so don't say you have no faith. Were you to despair sufficiently (not that you have reason to) you might doubt yourself and your mind briefly before coming back to your assertions reassured. This is consistent with the faith-dynamic.
 

Gerbah

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To continue searching for them, isn't it a bit naive to believe that I'd find them, considering no one else has?

How do you know no one else has? Not one person in the whole of history? Do you think you or the people you've known/read about are really it? Do you really know everything?

After all, truth is just a claim. Anything that's been "discovered" thus far is pretty minuscule when looking at the bigger picture... Or, maybe the answers have been found, but they can't be proven. It doesn't make much difference.

Faith is out. I possess none of it.

I think this is where existentialism comes in. It is an individual process and quest. No person or thing from the outside can tell you the answers. You have to experience the answers yourself and see the answers with your own eyes. The inner torture of not knowing is what points out your way for you. It's a lonely journey but the only way to arrive at something authentic. Of course you cannot prioritise with confidence when you don't know for sure who you are and thus, why you are here. Everyone needs peace. You sell yourself short if you settle for less. You can live on the surface for a while but not forever. At some point, you will get old and you will die. Lots of old people get really crazy because they didn't deal with these issues when they were younger.
 

swordpath

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^if people are able to sort these questions out and settle, then it's because they've allowed themself to adopt and put faith in something that gives them meaning and purpose. It doesn't suggest validity in their position to the rest of the world. That's why it's discomforting to me. It's individualistic. I don't want to be left to my own devices. I want to know the truth.
 

Mad Hatter

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We are here to reproduce (optional). Everything else is recess time.

Made me think of Schopenhauer: "The continous presence of humanity is only proof of its own prurience." :D

Faith is out. I possess none of it.

I sometimes envy people who believe. I simply can't (or to put it in a more Sartrian way, I refuse). That also - and often - applies to believing in reason, not only to the metaphysical.

Hated the stranger with SUCH a passion. Worst book I EVER read.

Seriously, just because it has a message, doesn't mean yeu're allowed to butcher it with pathetic writing >.>

Horrible novel that uses "it's a work of hard lulz" as an excuse for its' mediocrity.

That being said, a much better, and more effective choice of books, would be Siddhartha.

Well yes, I can see it's not everyone's cup of tea. I have to admit that I don't like the Meaursault character, but he's a nice metaphor for all the things I'm against. It wasn't exactly pleasure reading, but to me the book as a whole is a great allegory. (And as to the pathetic writing - I also read it to brush up my French, so its unliterary style was actually a benefit in this case. Nothing I would consider 'beautiful language', though.)
What do you think of "The Myth of Sisyphus" then?

I can also highly recommend Siddartha. Re-read it four months ago. It's just that I'm not what you would call spiritual.

Existence for its own sake. Some people can't deal with that concept, but the people who can are the most at peace with life.

You, as in individual, have the responsibility of giving your life meaning. That's what existentialism is, but many can't humble themselves to this realization. They have to attach special meaning, God ordained destiny.

I like to think that my own life is mainly about gathering experiences and impressions. The world's an interesting place to be. To me life doesn't have a deeper meaning or a purpose in itself, and I find that thought immensely liberating.
 

forzen

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The purpose of our life is to reproduce.

If you look at every lifeforms in our planet, a pattern suggest that we're supporting a system. What system? Who the hell knows, but imagine if you're a cell inside a human body. It could be any cell, white blood cell, red blood cell, brain cell, etc. The functions which you serve has no meaning to you. If your a red blood cell, all you do all day is go around delivering oxygen...for what purpose? You might not know, because as a cell, you don't have the capability to understand your purpose.

I think it's the same with human. We support a system that is beyond our understanding, we think we're intelligent, but the scope of the universe is beyond our imagination. However, it's not far fetch if instead of supporting a system, we are destroying it. Our behavior is so similar to the AIDS virus in terms of adapting to the environment that we might be some kind of virus to the sytem. We alter our surroundings to suit us and introduce foreign objects into it while reproducing and perhaps escaping this environment to corrupt more planets which disrupt the natural order of things. So what we might call intelligent life form might just be viruses invading this system we're occupying. :doh:

In the end, our purpose is to expand the human specie to either corrupt or support this system like any other lifeform....so our job is to have sex 24/7 which some of us are failing at.
 

LEGERdeMAIN

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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -Epicurus

Oberon, Epicurus sums up my opinion on god.

On the basic questions of existence there are thousands upon thousands of pages written. Because there is so much literature available on existentialism it can be difficult to sift through it. If you are really trying to find out the "why's" of being then you would do well to sit under a tree for a few hours a week and think. Take a notebook, write down questions you have and think about them. I have a suspicion that any individual who takes time out of their life to pursue these kinds of questions will be able to find their own answers - all you need is curiosity and a little bit of time.
 

Mole

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The purpose of our life is to reproduce.

If life is natural selection, then life has no purpose 'cause natural selection has no purpose, not even us.

So although natural selection doesn't have a purpose, you Forzen, do have a purpose which you have revealed. You have told us your purpose is to reproduce.

But what do you want to reproduce? Do you want to reproduce yourself? Or do you want to reproduce a symphony or perhaps a great poem? Or would you like to reproduce a scientific discovery?

If you want to reproduce yourself, you will need the co-operation of a member of the opposite sex. So you should keep in mind that men are attracted to fertility and women are attracted to resources. So if you are a man, you would be wise to build up your resources.

The danger of you thinking about 'reproduction' (and I think you mean 'sex') is that you will neglect to think about building your resources (which in our society means money), and so natural selection will pass you by.

And if you are not selected, you will be left on the shelf.
 

Stanton Moore

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read Karen Armstrong's biography of the Buddha. It might help.

It doesn't matter what your religion is, or even if you have one at all.
 

matmos

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The danger of you thinking about 'reproduction' (and I think you mean 'sex) is that you will neglect to think about building your resources (which in our society means money), and so natural selection will pass you by.
:smile:

He won't be selected. :cry:
 

forzen

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If life is natural selection, then life has no purpose 'cause natural selection has no purpose, not even us.

So although natural selection doesn't have a purpose, you Forzen, do have a purpose which you have revealed. You have told us your purpose is to reproduce.

But what do you want to reproduce? Do you want to reproduce yourself? Or do you want to reproduce a symphony or perhaps a great poem? Or would you like to reproduce a scientific discovery?

If you want to reproduce yourself, you will need the co-operation of a member of the opposite sex. So you should keep in mind that men are attracted to fertility and women are attracted to resources. So if you are a man, you would be wise to build up your resources.

The danger of you thinking about 'reproduction' (and I think you mean 'sex) is that you will neglect to think about building your resources (which in our society means money), and so natural selection will pass you by.

And if you are not selected, you will be left on the shelf.

I assure you I am not neglecting to build up my resources and putting a label on me with your assumption is not going to win you any arguement in my book.

The purpose of reproducing, just like any species, is to insure the survival of the race. Reproduction's only purpose is our survival, nothing else. The pattern of life forms in our planet is two fold, those who support a system (such as cells, red blood cells, ets) and those who destroy said system (bacteria, virus, etc). However, regardless of the purposes of the species, they reproduce to do what's encoded to their dna. The same with human, we are encoded to live (i'm not going to touch people that commit suicide). Any other assumptions beyond what's already known is pure speculation.

I'm making a bold statement here that the pattern of lifeform from the simpliest life form to the most complex, which i'm guessing is not a human, probably continues forever. Like numbers, there are infinite in both directions, simple to complex...little to largest. Simple species build complex species and like i said, it probably continues forever. The god we assume exist is the Omega, the most complex life/mechanical/whatever form to exist. So if the universe is as astromical like we assume it is, why would such a complex life form bother with our existance. Our relation with god is the same as our relation with bacteries. And only a handful of people care enough to look at that world with interest.

So why would we assume that we're some special specie that god created out of his image, because we are arrogant. We do that so we can sleep at night; we do that so we can justify slaughtering chickens, cows, and other species that God put in this planet for our convenience; so we can put ourselves above other species...because God created the human race with his image..so he won't be lonely. How arrogant of us, right? I bet Eve in heaven (maybe hell, who knows) wish she hasn't ate that fucking apple with how much shit we've done to this world.

My explanation is a little abstract, yet I hope you grasp the concept. Your right though, we put meaning into our life because if we don't, we'll get bored with living.
 

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Life is a paradox.

That's about as far as I've gotten.
 

Mole

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Natural Selection defeats Forzen. GG

Don't give up Forzen for there is still supernatural selection.

I know it's not popular to talk about supernatural selection, but there is a little angel in all of us.

And I can see the angel in you, Forzen, peeping through the sludge and boredom of natural selection into the sunny uplands of the supernatural.

And just think Forzen, it won't be some dame that selects you but your very own angel.
 
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