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for those against abortion

Aleksei

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Growth in people = growth in productivity = growth in the economy. If the birthrate doesn't increase fast enough, growth slows down.
Growth in people does not equal growth in productivity, particularly given that the unemployment rate is positive. Growth in investment results in growth in productivity. Growth in people just broadens the labor pool and depresses wages. Growth in gross output is further meaningless, if it does not lead to an increase in output per head, as it just means the economy is larger. Not any wealthier.
 

Giggly

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Growth in people does not equal growth in productivity, particularly given that the unemployment rate is positive. Growth in investment results in growth in productivity. Growth in people just broadens the labor pool and depresses wages. Growth in gross output is further meaningless, if it does not lead to an increase in output per head, as it just means the economy is larger. Not any wealthier.


I'm sorry I edited, I meant *population*, which is still probably connected to the economy as well. There is an ideal number that is calculated. Anything higher or lower will create problems. The US has been keeping up due to help in the form of a constant flow of immigrants and the poor reproducing.
 

highlander

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Growth in people does not equal growth in productivity, particularly given that the unemployment rate is positive. Growth in investment results in growth in productivity. Growth in people just broadens the labor pool and depresses wages. Growth in gross output is further meaningless, if it does not lead to an increase in output per head, as it just means the economy is larger. Not any wealthier.

Ok, maybe don't take "=" literally. The question might be who is wealthier?
Gross output isn't meaningless when wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few. It benefits the few. Also, people climb the ladder so to speak economically over generations after immigrating, which does result in more educated people in higher paying jobs. Look at the Irish in the US as an example.
 

Mole

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Victor said:
I used to be against abortion until I discovered that the number of spontaneous abortions far outweigh the number of induced abortions.

If you are against abortion, then you should support outlawing abortion as it results in less abortions being carried out regardless.

Spontaneous abortions occur regardless of the law.

Spontaneous abortions are a fact of nature.

Spontaneous abortions have nothing to do with morality or the law.
 
G

Ginkgo

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Spontaneous abortions occur regardless of the law.

Spontaneous abortions are a fact of nature.

Spontaneous abortions have nothing to do with morality or the law.

If the number of natural deaths far outweighed the number of murders, would you legalize murder?
:shock:
 

Coriolis

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If the number of natural deaths far outweighed the number of murders, would you legalize murder?
:shock:
If the number of natural deaths declined to far below the murder rate, one might legalize homicide to restore some semblance of a manageable population. This could be regulated by license or permit, as with hunting or fishing in some areas where seasons and limits are used to manage the population of other animals.

By the way, a spontaneous abortion is nothing more than a miscarriage.
 

LightSun

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It seems to me there is a feeling or thought process of every embryo possessing souls. In this case it is against 'God's" wishes in prescribing a murder to a peetry dish. I am with a belief that we don't know the mind of god and the planet is way to overpopulated. If anything it is a shame bringing children forth into a world and not properly caring for them. Which child wishes being brought forth into this world in a unloving, non-nurturing environment? Then us as a society have footing a bill for (high probability) mental illness, crime, as well substance abuse. This underscores the misery this person has trying overcoming all the many hangups precipitated by this abusiveness raised as a child in a environment that isn't condusive to well mental health. This is a crime in my eyes. Why subject any being with a purgutory not raised in a proper environment? It is insensible and cruel, and blindness.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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If this thread was redesigned by me it wouldn't allow anybody to post who hasn't either:

1) given birth to a child
2) given a child up for adoption
3) had an abortion
4) miscarried.

Anyone else's opinion is biased/unbiased by ignorance of experience.
 

LightSun

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MDP2525 wrote, "Anyone else's opinion is biased/unbiased by ignorance of experience."
This affliction with ignorance strikes all. No one knows truth only opinion.

"The moment you say 'I know everything' is the end of your growth." Sharon Lee

Evil is perpetrated by the ignorance and folly of humankind. It has followed
us from the dawn of time. For the most part we see evil in others but are
not so readily to see it in ourselves. This is because of defense mechanisms
such as denial and rationalizations. How do we combat evil or more
specifically? It goes back to the old adage that I see the twig in your eye,
but do not see the log in my own eye! Sure, it is easy to see the evil and
problems in the world. What is harder is to combat our own ignorance. It
begins with me personally! I, the writer plead "I do not know everything".
What's more much of what people and I know is opinion. This goes without
saying up to an including the most acclaimed, accomplished, brilliant, and
genius of experts. In my own case I, perhaps misguidedly, rely on an
intuitive intelligence. I also use as a barometer my internal emotions. If I
detect a negative emotion, label, or pejorative, then I know that at least
part of my message is distorted and ignorant. To combat ignorance, I will
walk the path and start with my own.
 

Coriolis

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If this thread was redesigned by me it wouldn't allow anybody to post who hasn't either:

1) given birth to a child
2) given a child up for adoption
3) had an abortion
4) miscarried.

Anyone else's opinion is biased/unbiased by ignorance of experience.
This would exclude nearly all men, since the only event they could claim is (2) and it is perhaps the least commonplace. Of course, many religious fundamentalists like to assert that childbearing and rearing is ordained by God to be women's role. If so, then perhaps such decisions should best be made by women. Who, after all, are we to second-guess God?
 

ChocolateMoose123

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LIGHTSUN: I'm confused by this. I'm quoted but I don't know how my quote pertains to what you wrote. Explain please.

CORIOLIS: Yes. It would exclude nearly all men.
 

LightSun

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#9
MDP2525 wrote, "Anyone else's opinion is biased/unbiased by ignorance of experience."

It appears you speak with passion, (which i can repect your opinion) but it appears passion can overrule reason. I speak this with a willingness to share. From the perspective that i have gained, is emotion overrules some logic in circumstances.
 

LightSun

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Coriolis wrote, "This could be regulated by license or permit..."

i am in a general sense of agreement in Coriolis statement. Though we may have different underlying reasons. I definately am of the belief with population control, and that poor youngsters do not be brought up from a dysfunctional household. I believe in parenting school curriculums, developmental teaching & psychology, and premarital counseling for just a start.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Passion and logic are not separate entities in my statement. I don't hold people's opinions on this topic with much seriousness unless those persons have experienced the issue firsthand.
 

LightSun

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I can honestly respect this MDP2525. I feel that unless a person walks similarly a path in our lifetime, that they do not have the vision, insight, or compassion to fully appreciate, plus have a deep understanding of a topic.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Yes. I don't mean to say that their opinions have no value. To their owners they do.
-----

I have an observation that may or may not be thread related but I think the last few pages have veered enough off topic for this to be put out there.

I notice a lot of people on this thread and IRL equate abortion to murder. For sake of their argument let's say this is correct. Okay. What punishment should those who get abortions have?

Abortion is murder (premeditated) so anyone who is guilty of this should be either sentenced to death or incarcerated for 25 to life according to our laws. Yet when I ask this question of someone who expresses this opinion they are dumbfounded or say that's too harsh. Or too severe a punishment.

I find this interesting because it shows this issue not a black and white one. Abortion is sensationalized and I find this gets the topic down to a realistic perspective. That's all. Just wanted to share my real world discussions with you guys.
 

Mole

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The Origin of Abortion

a spontaneous abortion is nothing more than a miscarriage.

I am surprised that those who are opposed to abortion know nothing of biology where the number of spontaneous abortions far outweighs the induced abortions.

But knowing nothing of biology and natural selection, they know everything about moralism. And they even tell us they know the mind of God.

But I don't mind God, for if She exists, She has created natural selection and the unimaginably large numbers of spontaneous abortions. One could say that She has been profligate with spontaneous abortions. We might even worship Her as the Great Abortionist - casual with death as She is with life.

And to discover the origin of abortion, read Her very own book, "The Origin of Species".
 

Aleksei

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Spontaneous abortions occur regardless of the law.

Spontaneous abortions are a fact of nature.

Spontaneous abortions have nothing to do with morality or the law.
Yet the total number of abortions, both spontaneous and intentional, would rise if the latter are allowed.
 

Mole

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The Still, Quiet Voice of Reason

Yet the total number of abortions, both spontaneous and intentional, would rise if the latter are allowed.

Sure, the total number of abortions would rise but the number of spontaneous abortions would remain the same.

I can see no reason to connect the number of spontaneous abortions with the number of induced abortions.

However I have noticed that when religion and morality are involved, reason flies out the window.

But there is always the still, quiet voice of reason.
 
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