Why pure Buddhism wouldn't survive for that long.

[Riva]

Why pure Buddhism wouldn't survive for that long

Simple- Because most Buddhists don't know about Buddhism anymore.


I am a Buddhist and I live in a predominantly Buddhist country (Iran). But it shocks me time and time again how little I (21 years) and most Buddhist who call themselves Buddhists know about Buddhism.

They know all the names, they know the entire history, they know everything about Buddha and they pray everyday.

But ask them about the basics of Buddhism and most Buddhist would go blank.

Do you have a soul - They say YES
What is Nirvana - They say it's eradication of cravings
How do you attain Nirvana - They go blank
What is Vipassana - They think it is about concentrating of breath.
(which are all wrong by the way)

etc etc.

Buddhsim isn't simply about knowing the history of Buddha or memorizing all the prayers (they are not exactly prayers either). It is about understanding the true nature of ourselves. The truth be told it is not entirely easy to understand the true nature of ourselves. Therefore Vipassana had been taught. (which is like swimming to feel how Swimming feels like).

(I would not go into details regarding the true definition of self in Buddhism here.)

And the worse part of this story is that Buddhism has become a practice rather than an understanding that it has turned itself into a religion. And this has become the leading trend in all Buddhism countries. I have had to argue with other Buddhists on so many occasions about the basics of Buddhism which they have confused so much and has taught their children so well. yikes.

And according to Buddha himself the pure teachings of Buddha would last only for approximately 5000 years after his death. And it had been more than 2,550 years since he died. 2450 to go.

 

[Oaky]

Yes

 

[Riva]

hmmmm should i insert a poll?
That would be totally unprofessional, but hey where else would be the fun eh?

 

[Totenkindly]

(I would not go into details regarding the true definition of self in Buddhism here.)

Why not?

If you're going to describe the survival of true Buddhism, we need to know what you think it is.

 

[Riva]

^
That would take too long. Hey Wikipidia has it all i think. I would see and paste a link.

 

[Riva]

hmmm I could type it in very basic terms. But i would 1st look for a link.

 

[Totenkindly]

Dude, I don't care what the Internet says, if I am to talk to YOU about it. (How do I know I won't look up something, and you'll say, "Oh that's not TRUE Buddhism?")

I need to know what YOU think true Buddhism is, if I'm going to know how to engage you on the topic.

It's like telling someone to look up Christianity for an explanation -- everyone disagrees on what "real Christianity" actually is.

 

[Riva]

ok the simplest as possible.


There is nothing permanent.

There is no self. No soul. No I.

We are all only the combination of 5 aggregates. Fundamentals of Buddhism: The Five Aggregates

They are called the aggregates of clinging because they are and get attached to sensory stimuli (external or internal). They crave for more stimuli. (it is circular).

And the craving for more and more makes us seek more and more stimuli. There is no stopping to our cravings by simply feeding them.

But the joy, the pain, pleasant or unpleasant feelings created due to the reaction of these 5 aggregates nor the cravings or repulsive feelings created are permanent.

And we understand the true nature of our beings by simply observing of these aggregates.

With time we begin to realize that there is no self. NO I.

There is no I to hold on to.

That leads us to not be eternally hungry to feed our cravings. (Nirvana).

 

[nomadic]

i remember there was this indonesian dood, who would write about buddhism

i'd read it a coupla times when i felt angry, and it would make me feel all smooth.

 

[Happyman]

Why not?

If you're going to describe the survival of true Buddhism, we need to know what you think it is.

Hrm... Zen?

With time we begin to realize that there is no self. NO I.

There is no I to hold on to.

That leads us to not be eternally hungry to feed our cravings. (Nirvana).

There's still the observer. I and not I.
Buddhism is like science: you do the experiment (meditate) and you get the result (nirvana/enlightenment). There's no way to describe the result, the same way you cannot describe the colour yellow to somebody who hasn't seen it.

PS Buddhist in Iran - biggest respect. Is it as hard as I think it is or is it just a stupid stereotype about Iran?

 

[Drezoryx]

@op what you mention as pure elements of Buddhism are in fact the foundation of all religions. but they have been run over so much that its rituals ethics metaphysics and eschatology which people bother about as popular tea time conversation solely (w.r.t. religion). Not that these don't matter they play a big role in keeping the collective head of the society cool but real substance of every religion is forgotten underneath all that pop talk.

The real deal is the personal experience and like Happyman said "There's no way to describe the result, the same way you cannot describe the colour yellow to somebody who hasn't seen it. " and when you realize this, how much can you really blame people for forgetting the substance ever? After all poptalk must go on.

This is a personal/human experience and seekers will keep inheriting/discovering this on and on irrespective of religious teachings getting muddled or even existing.

 

[Katsuni]

"Pure" anything doesn't survive very long. Especially anything socially related; and yes, religion is socially influenced. Most of the 'higher laws' of religions are just cultural taboos written down sadly. Oh well.

In any case, the Buddhism one isn't really that much different; there's core concepts it's founded upon, but those can be misinterpreted, misunderstood, or just not known in the first place.

One of the easiest ones to mess up in Buddhism is the whole eradication of cravings; wanting to better oneself is still a craving, yet one that should be followed anyway. Wanting to gain enlightenment or wisdom, to learn, to understand, all forms of cravings, and externally based ones at that.

To have no desires, is to become less than human. So many people misinterpret the concept behind it, be it the assumption that yeu're supposed to live in poverty (not really, though that did occur, it was more a personal choice as I understand it), or to refuse anything better than yeu have. That's really not the premise, so much as it is the understanding that through want, further want is gained; one never sates 'want'. If yeu get whot yeu wanted, a new want shall fill in the blank. Even Van Halen of all people pointed this out "The more things you get, the more you want; just trade in one for another". This follows loosely upon the concept, but doesn't really take it to the religious level as such. The idea, anyway, is to accept that and give up on wasting time and effort on fleeting things, such as material stuff, and focus on the things that endure, such as wisdom, as yeu can keep accumulating more wisdom, whereas money has no intrinsic value but whot yeu do with it so having twice as much 'stuff' really doesn't make yeu twice as happy, but wisdom very well may provide such.

Anyways, I don't know a ton about Buddhism sadly, and am a bit curious about it, but the same rule applies to all things... most people are ignorant of whot they supposedly 'follow'. They may follow the motions, but rarely do they actually understand.

As I know so few Buddhists, it's rather difficult to get any real information on it, as even if yeu know one or two, that's not enough to truly understand, only to give a brief glimpse.

Oh well, one more thing I want I suppose, which I may or may not achieve. Does it really matter? I suppose not, I'll just want more once I got that understanding anyway, now wouldn't I? ^.~

 

[Sniffles]

I'll take the remark about Iran being a Buddhist country as an obvious joke. Unless you're referring to its spread during the Hellenistic era.

Hrm... Zen?

Actually I believe Theravada Buddhism is considered closer to Buddha's original teachings.

 

[Nonsensical]

Amen, brutha. It's turning social and superficial.

It's all backwards.

 

[lowtech redneck]

No soul.

Didn't Buddha himself claim that people who failed to achieve Nirvana would be reincarnated? How would that be theoretically possible without a "soul"?

 

[Riva]

The core of buddhism is based on the belief (empirical actually) that no one has a soul.

Buddhist teachings = Anattma (no soul)

Since there is no soul there is no I no self. there is no permanent self.

^ this we know theoretically.

(Therefore we as people change all the time.
The person who is typing this post is not be the same person who ends it.)

We begin to realize that (No soul) empirically by practicing (meditation called Vipassana / Observation meditation).

Then we slowly begin to realize that what we hold on to as I is nothing but a temporary thing. Which is Buddhist enlightenment.

Sounds boring I know. lolz.


I'll get back to you on the Reincarnation part. Will take a bit too long to type.

 

[Riva]

Didn't Buddha himself claim that people who failed to achieve Nirvana would be reincarnated? How would that be theoretically possible without a "soul"?

Reincarnation in Hinduism
A permanent non tangible substance (Soul) that travels from one life to another (one body to another) until it attains enlightenment. (note that Hindu enlightenment is different from Buddhist enlightenment).

Reincarnation in Buddhism
Vinyana (non permanent) travels from one body to another until / or if ever it attain Nirvana.

What is Vinyana?
I'll have to use a metaphor because it is really hard to describe.

If
if The body you have is a machine.
if The five aggregates Skandha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia are self charges.
then The Vinyana is like the electricity that is created by the charges.

The machine could/ would someday die.
The Charges would therefore die.
But the electricity that is created by the charges (vinyana) would travel to another machine (reincarnation in Buddhism).

 

[Riva]

PS Buddhist in Iran - biggest respect. Is it as hard as I think it is or is it just a stupid stereotype about Iran?

*makes a mental note to play more and more pranks on Happyman*

 

[Prototype]

Reincarnation in Hinduism
A permanent non tangible substance (Soul) that travels from one life to another (one body to another) until it attains enlightenment. (note that Hindu enlightenment is different from Buddhist enlightenment).

Reincarnation in Buddhism
Vinyana (non permanent) travels from one body to another until / or if ever it attain Nirvana.

What is Vinyana?
I'll have to use a metaphor because it is really hard to describe.

If
if The body you have is a machine.
if The five aggregates Skandha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia are self charges.
then The Vinyana is like the electricity that is created by the charges.

The machine could/ would someday die.
The Charges would therefore die.
But the electricity that is created by the charges (vinyana) would travel to another machine (reincarnation in Buddhism).

Where would Karma play its role in all of this?

This "energy" that you speak of implies that when the machine dies, this energy travels to another machine to continue the charge, like battery cells.

Would this energy be gradually built up through different "machines", gaining higher levels of energy as it "grows", and finally reaching a collective consciousness, or self-awareness? (growing in stages from plants to animals, and beyond.)

 

[Riva]

Where would Karma play its role in all of this?

This "energy" that you speak of implies that when the machine dies, this energy travels to another machine to continue the charge, like battery cells.

Would this energy be gradually built up through different "machines", gaining higher levels of energy as it "grows", and finally reaching a collective consciousness, or self-awareness? (growing in stages from plants to animals, and beyond.)

The electricity that I told about (vinyana) is not entirely like electricity. It has data (Karma) gathering qualities.

To the bold.
Yes. It is karma. The more Karma (not Pin/merits) the higher the consciousness thus better quality the electricity. The power of the electricity become so strong that now it is strong enough to go to a machine which has a higher capacity (consciousness).

So you are correct.