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Campus Aborted Fetus Exposure

Thalassa

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I disagree. It makes me highly uncomfortable to think that the father might desperately want the child, but yet is expected to be alright with the mother choosing to abort because it's her body. (Not that any laws should change, just the cultural mores.)

IMO, if it was consensual sex and the guy wants the baby badly (say, to the point that he's willing to sign away everything he's worth that if she carries his child he'll be 100% accountable for it), the cultural expectation should be for the woman to carry the baby so the guy can raise it. Yes, it very well might damage the woman's career or plans and likely negatively impact her, but if her sex participation was voluntary, she should deal with the repercussions of her choices and not literally destroy the guy's baby if he wants it. It's not like he can carry his kid.

That said, I'm still pro-choice with legal matters.


Actually, I've talked to more than one woman who claimed the father of the child "made her get an abortion." This does happen, you know. There are husbands and lovers who have bullied their pregnant SO all the way to the abortion clinic.
 

Usehername

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Actually, I've talked to more than one woman who claimed the father of the child "made her get an abortion." This does happen, you know. There are husbands and lovers who have bullied their pregnant SO all the way to the abortion clinic.

I don't see how this relates to what I typed.
 

Totenkindly

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I don't think this helps people. I think having an exhibit that's walled off probably does...because at least then you don't have rape victims who made that decision walking through the Quad and suddenly falling to the ground seizing because the whole thing brings back truma.

I think shock tactics not only violate people in general, but they are counter-productive. There's a guy here in Hburg who has a large sign in front of his home along a well-traveled road, and he puts this stuff out there regularly -- if it's not equating Obama to the Anti-Christ ("Choose God or choose Obama!"), he's posting these large 3x3' pictures of aborted fetuses and talking about the downfall of America.

Honestly, I feel like even in this conservative area, all it buys him is shunning and an image of being a nutcase. It shows a lack of nuance and sensitivity, and turns people away from his position at best. You want to win people, well, they need to believe that you respect and actually care about them, and this is not a good way to show that.

Couple that with the idea that some abortions aren't about "Xtreme Birth Control" but resulting from some highly painful and agonizing dilemma in the parents' lives that had no good answer to begin with, or some situation for the girl that isn't resolved and probably is worsened by her choose to not have an abortion, and you have a person who is just trying to manipulate people emotionally into "following the right rules" without actually helping them resolve their difficulties.
 

Thalassa

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I don't see how this relates to what I typed.

Because your entire post revolved around the idea that women would selfishly get abortions when the father wanted the child, and that if the father agreed to be 100% responsible for the child that the woman should be expected to carry it to full term. I'm not going to even get into that argument with you, but I did want to add that it's not just women getting abortions because they're afraid it will ruin their career. There are women who are psychologically or even physically abused by the father if they refuse to get an abortion because he doesn't want the kid to interfere with his life.

Both sides must be acknowledged.
 

Usehername

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Because your entire post revolved around the idea that women would selfishly get abortions when the father wanted the child, and that if the father agreed to be 100% responsible for the child that the woman should be expected to carry it to full term. I'm not going to even get into that argument with you, but I did want to add that it's not just women getting abortions because they're afraid it will ruin their career. There are women who are psychologically or even physically abused by the father if they refuse to get an abortion because he doesn't want the kid to interfere with his life.

Both sides must be acknowledged.

I think you're making assumptions about what I typed. I said I'm pro-choice, and I'm pro-choice (as a very religious Christian) for a very good reason.
 

Thalassa

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I think you're making assumptions about what I typed. I said I'm pro-choice, and I'm pro-choice (as a very religious Christian) for a very good reason.

I didn't mean to make any assumptions about what you as an individual personally believe. I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was simply going upon the words which were there in that particular post.
 

Feops

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Intentionally inflicting shock value on people is emotionally distressing. I feel it should be optional.

What interested me more was the debate between knowing and a sanitized version of knowing. I've never seen a cow or chicken slaughtered and butchered before. I don't even like to deal with bones or blood in what I buy. I eat a fair bit of meat. Should I be required to face the graphic reality of my lifestyle choice?

Though I feel that may be dishonest in a way. I would find the butchering repulsive because I have no exposure to it, not because it would be a better decision for me to give up meat.
 

Usehername

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Because your entire post revolved around the idea that women would selfishly get abortions when the father wanted the child, and that if the father agreed to be 100% responsible for the child that the woman should be expected to carry it to full term. I'm not going to even get into that argument with you, but I did want to add that it's not just women getting abortions because they're afraid it will ruin their career. There are women who are psychologically or even physically abused by the father if they refuse to get an abortion because he doesn't want the kid to interfere with his life.

Both sides must be acknowledged.

I didn't mean to make any assumptions about what you as an individual personally believe. I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was simply going upon the words which were there in that particular post.

I just didn't see how my post implicitly judged the other side--if anything, it reinforces it, IMO. If someone is willing to love and raise a baby that resulted from consensual sex, be it father or mother, the cultural expectation should be that the baby should have a chance at life. (I think women's pro-choice laws should remain fixed and they should keep a keen eye out for any sign of a woman being pressured to have an abortion, I just think that the concept of the baby existing in the mom's belly is a poor argument for it being "completely up to her." Because we're not just talking about her body, we're talking about a living human (legally it's a human just not a person, right?).)

There are selfish and terrible humans of every gender that impose horrific psychological and physical abuse upon other humans, ITA, all I'm saying is that it's not the baby's fault the parents got pregnant, so if someone is willing to love and raise a baby that resulted from consensual sex, the cultural norm should impose pressure to make choices that engender love and life.
 

paperoceans

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Meh, I wouldn't care; people watch Saw movies, so I don't really see the difference. But I do think that it was wrong to have those pictures openly displayed; people should be able to decide whether or not they want to see such graphic images. Especially since children are sometimes on community college campuses...

But then again, I do not consider a fetus a "human" until after a few weeks. Abortion is horrible, blah blah. Coulda been the president, whatever.

Anyway, after lurking around on the interwebs for years and stumbling on 4chan... If I see things like Porche girl, I just blink and think nothing of it. The things that I saw... can never be unseen D:
 

Orangey

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^^Tub girl was way more disturbing to me than the aborted fetuses!

But back on topic, yeah, we have the fetus poster people on our campus almost every week.

As to the issue of the images being too graphic, it's complicated because television, for instance, has laws that prevent them from broadcasting certain images at certain times of the day for the very reason that they don't want people (children especially) exposed to graphic content. If we're going to be consistent about it, the aborted fetus posters should be subject to the same type of regulation.
 

millerm277

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I think graphic infomation should be mandated to be at abortion clinics (not to impose guilt on the pregnant, but because it's such a final and deep decision that they should know exactly what's happening before they commit) but I'm anti-forcing it on the random public. I like the partitioned walls thing--available to those who voluntarily choose to know.

Actually, I disagree. Mandated to be available, yes, and possibly asked "Do you want to see what it will look like after the abortion?", but forcing it on someone going to have an abortion done goes against my morals, IMO. I don't want to see pictures of open heart surgery either. I understand it's a controversial topic, but that is not the place for it.

Also, mandating it to be in abortion clinics, is inappropriate, in light of the Supreme Court decision. It clearly states that (at least in early-term), abortion is 100% legal, no restrictions, nothing else prior to viability of the fetus. Therefore, there should not be any sorts of forced rules on it beyond what is on other medical procedures. (On this note as well: This wasn't some one time decision, there have been many further decisions affirming the right to abortion, and Plan B type drugs, the most recent one being the decision ordering the FDA to allow Plan B to be sold without a prescription.)
 

Usehername

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Actually, I disagree. Mandated to be available, yes, and possibly asked "Do you want to see what it will look like after the abortion?", but forcing it on someone going to have an abortion done goes against my morals, IMO. I don't want to see pictures of open heart surgery either. I understand it's a controversial topic, but that is not the place for it.

Also, mandating it to be in abortion clinics, is inappropriate, in light of the Supreme Court decision. It clearly states that (at least in early-term), abortion is 100% legal, no restrictions, nothing else prior to viability of the fetus. Therefore, there should not be any sorts of forced rules on it beyond what is on other medical procedures. (On this note as well: This wasn't some one time decision, there have been many further decisions affirming the right to abortion, and Plan B type drugs, the most recent one being the decision ordering the FDA to allow Plan B to be sold without a prescription.)

(A) Laws can be modified

and (B) not all of us are American. :)
 

Athenian200

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Personally, I think the intentions of the people who came up with the display are tacky (then again, I'm pro-choice), but seeing it doesn't really have any effect on me on a visceral level (I've looked it up). I'm not sure why, but to me it's just an image representing a process. Basically, all it tells you is that an aborted fetus had the potential to become a baby, but didn't. I don't really see why seeing it visually affects people so much more than hearing it verbally. Maybe I'm just weird.

Women shouldn't have to have children against their will. Seriously, we have overpopulation and too few jobs as it is. Abortion is a good thing. People focus so much on an individual life that they often lose sight of the bigger picture of humanity as a whole.
 
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