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  1. #21
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    May 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'd advise not killing plants either then.
    Or bugs.

    Or all the microbes that you breathe by the moment and smother in your lungs.
    Or all those germs that those murderous white blood cells in your veins are constantly absorbing, invading, and slaughtering so that you might live.
    Or the tiny organisms you step on as you stumble, rubbing at tired eyes, from the bedroom to the bath every morning.
    And so on.
    Personally I don't think it's right to kill insects, which would explain why my room sometimes have spiders etc. Having compassion in that sense would be having awareness and not to have intentions of harming something.

    Course as suggested there are still major problems with this line of thinking. What constitutes as life? Bacteria? Plants? If the intention is not to harm, does that mean someone should stay indoors all day?

    Nature is screaming on some inaudible level with all the death that is part of the circle of life.

    ... and this is why I don't consider the eating of meat a big deal, although I suppose the actual cruelties of the meat market (animals raised in certain forms of captivity) is a connected but slightly different issue.

    In Christian thought, there seems to be a reverence placed on creation. Since God created everything, one must respect the creation just as if you would respect the house of a person in which you were a guest. This doesn't mean you can never kill, nor ever eat meat or plants, or do other things to help you survive; it just means accepting that the world isn't yours to devour and plunder to the extent you might wish, that there is a healthy balance to be preserved and other things in this world besides the one who would like to consume, and it honors God to honor the creation.

    ...As far as the commandment in the "Ten Commandments" goes, the actual translation is, "Thou shalt not murder [another human being]," not "THou shalt not kill [any living thing]."

    Punishments carried out by the state (i.e., the nation of Israel at the time) were not considered murder. If a man hit a pregnant woman and she miscarried her child, that was not considered murder either... the aggressor just had to pay the father a fine, he wasn't put to death. The nation went to war with foreign nations and/or defended its borders with ferocity, and again deaths occurred and were accepted; but murder, meanwhile, was specifically murder. You can't equate "death [of people or animals]" to "murder."

    I've never really seen an issue with "Thou shalt not kill" somehow prohibiting the eating of meat. I'm thinking we're over-analyzing here. It was the law of the Jewish people at the time, and I don't think they were confused on it either, since it's pretty obvious they were fine with eating meat at the time.... but again, they did it in balance.
    Agreed. I'll just have to accept there's a difference in the teaching at the fundamental level. This seems to be that point, it was useful learning about it.
    As mentioned previously my issue isn't with the 10 commandment, just with the idea that God is love, and the idea that killing doesn't necessary conflict with love. It's an issue based on a general principle on the idea of love. (My idea of what was meant by love in christianity)

    There are 10 rules set in stone, but alot of other rules can be infered from other things right?

    Anyhow thanks

  2. #22
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Jan 2009


    Daniel and friends were vegetarians because they didn't want to eat meat sacrificed to idols while they were in captivity. Religions would sacrifice animals to gods and then eat the left over meat, Daniel did not want to eat it.

    Daniel 1:11-16 (New International Version)

    11 Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, 12 "Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see." 14 So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days.

    15 At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. 16 So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.
    I actually got some flak from a few Christians when I became a vegetarian in college because they were concerned I would become punk or something. So I looked it up and found that the Bible is not at all against vegetarianism.

    Of course, from what I understand, other religions can take things too far the other way, with people who don't get enough food not being willing to eat animals.

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Daniel and friends were vegetarians because they didn't want to eat meat sacrificed to idols while they were in captivity. Religions would sacrifice animals to gods and then eat the left over meat, Daniel did not want to eat it.
    Yup, exactly... it wasn't the meat per se, it was that it was dedicated to idolatrous gods.

    I actually got some flak from a few Christians when I became a vegetarian in college because they were concerned I would become punk or something. So I looked it up and found that the Bible is not at all against vegetarianism.
    Nope, not at all.

    Most of the food restraints in the Old Testament were part of the cleanliness laws anyway; in a time period where there was no such thing as purification/sterilization (i.e., lots of germs and great potential for epidemic -- along with a complete lack of knowledge that germs even existed, all that was witnessed were the diseases/epidemics), along with the need to appear distinct and separate from surrounding pagan nations, Israel banned a number of particular foods.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Dec 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Eatting meat is one of the issues I have trouble figuring out how it's possible to be compatible. Just understanding a basic idea of compassion and love, it just doesn't really connect with the idea of harming something intentionally. Sometimes I hear some talk about how the 10 commandment only refers to "Thou shall not murder" but that doesn't really explain how killing/intentional harm is compatible with all of this.

    Considering that I have friends that are christians and am interested in hearing different religious perspectives. I'm honestly wondering how people especially christians usually deal with the problem?

    Any simple ideas/reasoning would be appreciated. It doesn't need to be a complicated answer.
    Christianity affords no rights to animals, despite modern Western concerns.

  5. #25
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Actually there's a whole passage in the New Testament about how some people eat meat for God and some people eat vegetables for God and about how they shouldn't judge each other. I can't wait to find it because it's scriptural basis for saying that Christianity is not about what you eat compared to Judaism which has the Kosher diet, etc.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Oct 2008


    It's an interesting point, in Genesis.. before the fall man did not eat meat, however, it was reconciled afterwards... I suppose that regardless of what a particular faith preaches about love , compassion and murder it all depends on their views about animals... and unfortunately many of the leading faiths do not see animals as equal to humans, many believing that they in fact lack a soul.
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  7. #27
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    People were considered carnivores
    * omnivores.

    true carnivores do not generally ingest fruits, for example, because they produce enough vitamin C within their bodies so as not to necessitate supplementation.

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