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What's Wrong About Religion?

Bubbles

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I'd like to know. Really. This is absolutely driving me insane.

So an ordinary person decides to believe that someone or something created the world greater than themself. They then proceed to worship said deity out of thankfulness, and hope in return that they will receive their creator's blessing. They hope to live a life that will best exemplify the good traits of the human being, and believe they can overcome the bad traits.

When they are hurt, they believe all isn't lost. When someone dies, they believe they are in a better place. When someone commits a wrong, they can be forgiven.

It's a healthy thing, when utilized correctly. It's something to fall back on when the rational mode of life can't help you.

Is that truly a terrible thing to have? I know it can promote ignorance, but that's the fault of the individual practicing the faith, not the faith itself. I just want an explanation. Thank you. :D
 
P

Phantonym

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I've always thought that people can believe in whatever they want to believe in as long as they don't hurt themselves or others around them and don't try to force their beliefs on others.
 

redacted

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it incentives disregarding reality and not thinking through moral stances. it's possible to be religious and good, but it's just as hard if not harder than being atheistic and good IMO.

morals should be tailored to situations; there's no greater moral code.
 

Katsuni

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There's nothing wrong with RELIGION, there's something seriously wrong with RELIGIONS.

The S makes all the difference; religion in general is fine. Belief is good and healthy, in one form or another.

When yeu turn it from being a concept into an organization though, problems begin to arise.

Having a belief in something that yeu feel to be true is fine, there's nothing wrong with it at all. When yeu have a large group of people who believe in something that is completely without any tangible proof, and yet they so strongly believe irrefutably that they are absolutely right, to the point that they feel it is their duty to insist on pressuring anyone else nearby to force their belief upon those "foolish enough to not realize the error of their ways", then yeu get stuck with a real mess.

The person's belief is fine. The organization which imposes its' belief upon others is not.
 

Totenkindly

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Is this in relation to all the critical amount of threads being posted by seeming rationalists here nowadays? sigh.

... i know for me, what you describe is positive. Unfortunately, in the current USA political climate, religion seems to be more about creating laws to impose on people's behavior than the attitudes you describe. This probably contributes to the negativity. Just saying, "It's not religion's fault, it's the followers," isn't going to buy any faith a free pass.
 

m32

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I'd like to know. Really. This is absolutely driving me insane.

So an ordinary person decides to believe that someone or something created the world greater than themself. They then proceed to worship said deity out of thankfulness, and hope in return that they will receive their creator's blessing. They hope to live a life that will best exemplify the good traits of the human being, and believe they can overcome the bad traits.

When they are hurt, they believe all isn't lost. When someone dies, they believe they are in a better place. When someone commits a wrong, they can be forgiven.

It's a healthy thing, when utilized correctly. It's something fall back on when the rational mode of life can't help you.

Is that truly a terrible thing to have? I know it can promote ignorance, but that's the fault of the individual practicing the faith, not the faith itself. I just want an explanation. Thank you. :D

hat's a great definition of religion. But no religion works like that. No religion. For example; the religion you think you are defining the closest is Christianity, but Christianity is not at all the way you describe it, a better definition would be:

It isn't about the fact that God created the world. But that he created the rules that govern this world, and that in order to understand these rules which are beyond human understanding; faith and acceptance in God is required.

There is no blessing; just a closeness or nearness to God (his essence) and the natural abilities developing out of this closeness are good emotions, good intuition, a sense of peace, an ability to manoeuvre to live in ways that are not normally apparent, because God as creator is the path, by having created the essence of live.

Religion is not a particular there for it depends on the religion. Christianity being peaceful Islam being violent etc.
 

simulatedworld

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I had a post here and then I deleted it because I realized it was in the wrong thread. Oops.
 

Bubbles

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Thanks for all the replies here so far, it's really helpful. And I do agree with the idea that a structure itself is always inherently flawed; for example I'm Catholic but I'm not naive enough to think our system is always peachy keen fantastic. Katsuni made a fabulous point on that.

Unfortunately, in the current USA political climate, religion seems to be more about creating laws to impose on people's behavior than the attitudes you describe.
Mm...this is true, I guess. Good point, Jennifer. I think I was lucky enough to be raised differently...I didn't start noticing that until I began being around people of that mindset in high school. I was terribly naive about the political atmosphere spawned from religious zealots. ^^;

That's a great definition of religion. But no religion works like that. No religion. For example; the religion you think you are defining the closest is Christianity, but Christianity is not at all the way you describe it, a better definition would be:

It isn't about the fact that God created the world. But that he created the rules that govern this world, and that in order to understand these rules which are beyond human understanding; faith and acceptance in God is required.

There is no blessing; just a closeness or nearness to God (his essence) and the natural abilities developing out of this closeness are good emotions, good intuition, a sense of peace, an ability to manoeuvre to live in ways that are not normally apparent, because God as creator is the path, by having created the essence of live.

That's awfully sad. But I can see the truth in that, too. Maybe that's what makes it sad. Then again...there were no real rules in the beginning (of the Old Testament), just blind faith. Well, unless you factor in Adam and Eve and apple, but that's mostly myth. The rules (from my understanding) came from people's insistence on going their own way regardless of the implications of their actions. And actually, at one point, people asked for guidance and God gave the Ten Commandments in answer. Leviticus is where God got snippy and was like, "Screw you gaiz for ignoring me, I'm going to give you crap rules as your punishment." Mm, I suppose that gives you some leverage as well, tho, since any creator bestowing rules does in fact suggest a following of them. I guess I figure it's alright because we owe it, really. Kind of a sign of respect, if you will.

I really do appreciate these replies, and I think it's clearing things up for me a bit. And sorry if the OP was a bit frustrated...I'm not good about disguising that stuff, my bad. :blush:
 

Katsuni

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It's fine to be concerned and confused, it happens, especially when it seems like the whole world is against yeu for some reason and yeu just don't know WHY.

All the "zomg religion sucks!" posts lately kind of give a bad impression to be honest. Those who forcefully believe that religion by default is ridiculous or insane, truly aren't understanding enough to know that they're no better themselves for completely outright rejecting such without any careful thought either.

Also, yeu might want to just ignore Lectivus in general, the whole chapter's pretty much total crap. It's a bunch of whiney pissy rules that look and sound an awful lot like they were forcefully added because of some priest's opinion at the time, not because it was really the word of god or anything. Seriously, it's the ONLY place in the whole bible that mentions anything about gays, shellfish, fungus and a bunch of other random crap which has absolutely no relevance on the rest of the book. Where'd the whole "peace and tollerance" thing go?

In any case, religion isn't bad as I've stated... yeur beliefs are fine, especially if yeu use a little common sense. The biggest problems are when yeu automatically assume that yeu are 100% correct despite having no proof of such, or much proof to the contrary, and then proceeding to insist on forcing yeur own beliefs on others. As soon as yeu step across that line, yeu've just dipped into the realm of 'evil', because honestly that's all 'wrong' is, is the act of forcing ones' beliefs upon others against their will. I'll go into more detail on that sometime, but not right now.
 

Bubbles

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:D Fact: Leviticus is about as human as God gets--being pissed off and wanting to slap sense into people. I agree, from my view it's crap, and thank God the New Testament revokes it. Hahaha.

PS: Shellfish is divine. :wubbie:
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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I'd like to know. Really. This is absolutely driving me insane.

So an ordinary person decides to believe that someone or something created the world greater than themself. They then proceed to worship said deity out of thankfulness, and hope in return that they will receive their creator's blessing. They hope to live a life that will best exemplify the good traits of the human being, and believe they can overcome the bad traits.

When they are hurt, they believe all isn't lost. When someone dies, they believe they are in a better place. When someone commits a wrong, they can be forgiven.

It's a healthy thing, when utilized correctly. It's something to fall back on when the rational mode of life can't help you.

Is that truly a terrible thing to have? I know it can promote ignorance, but that's the fault of the individual practicing the faith, not the faith itself. I just want an explanation. Thank you. :D

If you are referring to this forum I'd say that it is difficult to have a good spiritual/religious discussion, because people of different viewpoints often don't listen and show respect to each other. Even if two people are having a good discussion someone else will often try to come in and sabotage it. And...this forum is actually one of the better ones when compared to the rest of the internet. On other sites it is even worse. :doh:

If you are looking at religion in general there is good reason to mistrust it, because it can turn into a large organization. Whenever people get power in a large organization they use it to control, mistreat, and manipulate people in a variety of ways. Religion is no different. I am a member of a church and regularly attend in spite of this. This is because of my admiration of Christ. If it were up to Christianity I would never be a Christian. I am a Christian because of Christ, not because of Christianity.
 

ajblaise

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What's wrong with religion/conservatism/tradition/reactionism is that it can be maladaptive and slow down the progress of civilization.

When science and reason became the new ways to seek knowledge and truth -- religion dragged its heels.

Now that Enlightenment thinking has become a staple of Western society, we have liberal theology and sects of religion that allow themselves to progress, but there is still lots of fundamentalism and "old ways" of thinking within religion.
 

m32

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What's wrong with religion/conservatism/tradition/reactionism is that it can be maladaptive and slow down the progress of civilization.

When science and reason became the new ways to seek knowledge and truth -- religion dragged its heels.

Now that Enlightenment thinking has become a staple of Western society, we have liberal theology and sects of religion that allow themselves to progress, but there is still lots of fundamentalism and "old ways" of thinking within religion.

The enlightenment gave use Marxisms, pragmatism and multiculturalism. Do you know on what grounds these three groups practice science? Lamarckian/class based, utilitarian and racially based. Do you think that is scientific.
 

Bubbles

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If you are looking at religion in general there is good reason to mistrust it, because it can turn into a large organization. Whenever people get power in a large organization they use it to control, mistreat, and manipulate people in a variety of ways. Religion is no different. I am a member of a church and regularly attend in spite of this. This is because of my admiration of Christ. If it were up to Christianity I would never be a Christian. I am a Christian because of Christ, not because of Christianity.

You know, I wouldn't have thought to have worded it quite like that, but that's very true! Absolute power can corrupt absolutely, whether you're an Emperor or a Pope or a CEO. :D I also found that was immensely true for religion teachers... >.> And they tended to hate me quite often....haha. It's the beliefs, not the organization behind it, that we believe. If the pope issued something that absolutely colored my faith entirely, I'm not sure I could continue being Catholic. Also, I thought you worded the bolded quite well. :)

What's wrong with religion/conservatism/tradition/reactionism is that it can be maladaptive and slow down the progress of civilization.

When science and reason became the new ways to seek knowledge and truth -- religion dragged its heels.

Now that Enlightenment thinking has become a staple of Western society, we have liberal theology and sects of religion that allow themselves to progress, but there is still lots of fundamentalism and "old ways" of thinking within religion.

Oh, I didn't even think of this! :doh: That's true enough. Oi, when I think about the people I argue with about women being priests, let me tell you people are scared of change. Really a shame. Religions have the capability to progress, but so often don't, and I can see how someone outside that religion can be frustrated with the slow movement they witness from the sidelines. God knows the people inside it often are. :rolleyes:
 

Take Five

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There's nothing inherently wrong with religion, or conservative ways. If anything, conservatism validates liberalism by making sure that any change made has a better chance of being worth while, a better chance of being actual progress rather than change for the sake of change.

There's nothing wrong with religion in general, though I won't say about particular religions or religious practices. Religion is people working together to find purpose, understanding, and fulfillment in an ultimate sense that no other pursuit can provide. I can't really imagine anything more human than searching for the greater.
 

NewEra

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Religion has been the leading cause of world conflict throughout history. There's nothing wrong with religion, there's something wrong with close-minded people. If people were more supportive and open-minded about people having different religious beliefs, then maybe this conflict and tension would not exist.
 

Katsuni

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There's nothing inherently wrong with religion, or conservative ways. If anything, conservatism validates liberalism by making sure that any change made has a better chance of being worth while, a better chance of being actual progress rather than change for the sake of change.

Despite being excessively liberal myself in my own mindset, I fully agree with this and like the way yeu put it.

If the most 'liberal' people had their way, often it'd just be "This road is boring, let's go down this other path!" and promptly walk off a cliff >.>;

However... there are times when the balance is a bit too heavily in favour of the conservatives. For example, stem cell research is now to the point that it's been developed where it does NOT require the use of an embryo anymore, and can be done purely through literally any cell int he body. Meaning yeu can take a skin graft, and convert it into acting as though it were stem cells. And yet it's still technically banned and forbidden despite this. Why? Because conservatives are scared of 'playing god' and 'think of the children!' even though there's no children involved >.>;;

Yes, we'd rather let millions of people die while we drag our heels about actually even starting the research to save their lives. I don't donate anything at all ever to the "zomg cure cancer!" or "cure MS!" or whotever funds, because they aren't allowed to use that money where they need to. It just sits around collecting dust, or being wasted on research that they already KNOW isn't going to work simply so that they have something to do and show off to make it look like they're working hard. They'd LOVE to be able to cure it, but they're not allowed to even try.

On the other hand, if we didn't, we'd end up with frankenstein's monsters running around. And then the conservatives, despite being the minority enough to allow this to happen, would riot and just cause problems anyway. If we removed all the conservatives, we'd just go wasting money endlessly on bad ideas, and loose all traditions and cultural heritage. The question one must pose to oneself then, becomes, is that really a bad thing?
 

skin

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There is nothing wrong with the concept of religion, only how most humans adopt that idea. We often twist it to fit our already soldered worldview, and use it as validation. (Not much unlike MBTI) It is okay to believe in a god, as long as the worldview that stems from that thought is not completely removed from the concrete reality, which i feel many of the world religions are.

I am an atheist myself, always been, but i sometimes attend church because i feel welcome there, it is a warm place to go to.
The people are kind and giving, the mood is very positive, and it is a good break from the overly critical and overly rational environment i usually dwell in. YMMV ;)

I think a very important part of humanity is lost by this extreme focus on the rational and logical in the occident world. I think adults are in constant development like children are, and the abandonment of fairy tales, myths, imagination, dreams, everything that does not fit a logical framework makes a lot of people very one-dimensional in the later years.

The problem seem to arise from the need to choose one side of the dichotomy. The 'irrational' religious or the 'rational' atheist. The one is not allowed to travel into the others realm.
If you do not pick a side you will feel cognitive dissonance. It is easiest to pick a side and stay there. :)
 

Habba

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I think it's very healthy to be thankful for each passing day. This way you take your life less granted and can appreciate it more. You can get much more out of life, if you acknowledge your own fragility and mortality, and live every day as if it was your last. God is a great device to be thankful to.

When things go bad and everything falls on your shoulders, it's nice to know that you are not alone, ever. Best thing about being a child is that there's always someone watching over you, taking care of everything. Beliving that God carries you through harsh times makes it all so much easier. You don't have to carry all that weight alone.

And whenever someone close to you dies, it's relieves that terrible sorrow if you know that someone is going for some place better. And one day you might have a chance to meet that person again.

As you can see, faith in God can do much good. But only as long as he's giving you support. When he becomes your guide and master, you've lost your free will. When you live according to the rules of your religion, you are no longer making choices yourself. You are not living your own life, but someone else's.

So I can really understand why faith can be so important to some people, but religion should not be. To be honest, religions shouldn't even exists. Everyone should have their own personal god and creator. And it should be totally private. If you bring your own belives upon others, you are just trying to prove your own superiority. This goes to atheistic NTs too.

So, keep your god to yourself, and don't let it come in your way of living your life.
 

Katsuni

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Taking things for granted isn't bad. It means yeu've come to rely and expect on them and shows a deep level of trust and understanding. True, it may be dangerous to take LIFE for granted, but this's often transposed elsewhere to other things such as people, like if someone takes their spouse for granted, it means they can no longer truly imagine their world without them. People just seem to think it has negative connotations when it generally is a good thing.
 
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