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Open-mindedness: A Universal Virtue

Bubbles

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It seems to me the greatest complaint heard about religious people is their lack of open-minded thinking. And I am sure we've all met the old woman muttering about how all the kids sexing up today are going to hell, or that youth group leader who was just a taaaaad overenthusiastic.

But these are not the "rule" of religious people. These are individuals who believe a faith, but are unwilling to let others believe their own beliefs.

Agnostics and atheists quite often pride themselves on not holding any such narrow-minded beliefs themselves. However, I'd like to comment that I have seen people of this belief share the same problem. "People of that one faith are always so judgmental" is, in fact, a judgment itself. It's the same thing as that God-fearing old lady saying "Those hedonistic atheists don't care about anyone but themselves!"

The fact is, people of all walks of life ought to--and often do--respect one another's beliefs. Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists: any of them can have an open mind, just as any of them can have a closed mind.

Religion, or lack of religion, has nothing to do with how open your mind is. And as I have faced that stereotype myself, I wish people would stop judging others based on that.

Thoughts?
 

Oom

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Very good thoughts.

I've often thought this, but you've made the thoughts much more concise than I ever could have.:)

From my own personal experience. I've been known to be open minded, this is just what others think. It makes it hard to have an opinion on your own when you have to weigh the other side into the equation constantly. This is how I've been my whole life.

I'm always searching for something to have an opinion on, but I get stuck on how everything has a reason. Everything is the way it is. People don't find me interesting after a while because I don't have much to say on many topics and because of this I tend to fall out with people quickly.

There lies my bane. My open mindedness hasn't enabled me to have much social interaction. I'm a people needy person because of it (and probably some other stuff I can't think of right now). This is one way it is not a virtue but a curse.
 

Nonsensical

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It seems to me the greatest complaint heard about religious people is their lack of open-minded thinking. And I am sure we've all met the old woman muttering about how all the kids sexing up today are going to hell, or that youth group leader who was just a taaaaad overenthusiastic.

But these are not the "rule" of religious people. These are individuals who believe a faith, but are unwilling to let others believe their own beliefs.

Agnostics and atheists quite often pride themselves on not holding any such narrow-minded beliefs themselves. However, I'd like to comment that I have seen people of this belief share the same problem. "People of that one faith are always so judgmental" is, in fact, a judgment itself. It's the same thing as that God-fearing old lady saying "Those hedonistic atheists don't care about anyone but themselves!"

The fact is, people of all walks of life ought to--and often do--respect one another's beliefs. Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists: any of them can have an open mind, just as any of them can have a closed mind.

Religion, or lack of religion, has nothing to do with how open your mind is. And as I have faced that stereotype myself, I wish people would stop judging others based on that.

Thoughts?

:hug:

You spoke the words right out of my mouth.

I am always hesitant to express the spiritual/religious side of my soul on these forums for this simple reason: the fear of being judged by the many agnostics/atheists here. :cry:

Furthermore, as I believe in everything you said perfectly, I find myself believing in everything. I am a Christian-Muslim-Jewish-Hindu-Buddhist-Pagan-Rastafarian (did I cover everything? :doh:) I find that a lot of it preaches the same motifs and values, which I like. I overlook the concrete barriers, and assemble one large universal puzzle.

But I don't want to get too much into that.

I really like that you posted this thread. I constantly fear that Atheists and
Agnostics are going to judge me and condemn me because of my religious views. Not to say you have to agree with those preaching their faiths, though.

Good thread.
 

Nonsensical

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Very good thoughts.

I've often thought this, but you've made the thoughts much more concise than I ever could have.:)

From my own personal experience. I've been known to be open minded, this is just what others think. It makes it hard to have an opinion on your own when you have to weigh the other side into the equation constantly. This is how I've been my whole life.

I'm always searching for something to have an opinion on, but I get stuck on how everything has a reason. Everything is the way it is. People don't find me interesting after a while because I don't have much to say on many topics and because of this I tend to fall out with people quickly.

There lies my bane. My open mindedness hasn't enabled me to have much social interaction. I'm a people needy person because of it (and probably some other stuff I can't think of right now). This is one way it is not a virtue but a curse.

On the open-minded note,

I am the same way. I am not too good at arguments based around opinions because I often see both sides almost equally, and am hesitant to choose a side in the first place.

I sometimes wonder if it is a bad thing. I don't condemn anything unless I find it extremely immoral or wrong.
 

Bubbles

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From my own personal experience. I've been known to be open minded, this is just what others think. It makes it hard to have an opinion on your own when you have to weigh the other side into the equation constantly. This is how I've been my whole life.
I'm always searching for something to have an opinion on, but I get stuck on how everything has a reason. Everything is the way it is. People don't find me interesting after a while because I don't have much to say on many topics and because of this I tend to fall out with people quickly.There lies my bane. My open mindedness hasn't enabled me to have much social interaction. I'm a people needy person because of it (and probably some other stuff I can't think of right now). This is one way it is not a virtue but a curse.

Ah, quite quite true. :p I love getting in discussions with my close atheist friends, and sometimes when I agree with them on a point they ask me, "Well, then why are you Catholic?" and I say, "Oh, I mean I can see how someone can believe that, not that I myself believe it!" It confuses them to death sometimes, but really, it's just allowing yourself to walk in someone else's shoes. The trick is figuring out which ones best fit you, and sometimes none of them really do so you borrow a few and run with them. ;)

You spoke the words right out of my mouth.

I am always hesitant to express the spiritual/religious side of my soul on these forums for this simple reason: the fear of being judged by the many agnostics/atheists here.

Furthermore, as I believe in everything you said perfectly, I find myself believing in everything. I am a Christian-Muslim-Jewish-Hindu-Buddhist-Pagan-Rastafarian (did I cover everything? ) I find that a lot of it preaches the same motifs and values, which I like. I overlook the concrete barriers, and assemble one large universal puzzle.

But I don't want to get too much into that.

I really like that you posted this thread. I constantly fear that Atheists and
Agnostics are going to judge me and condemn me because of my religious views. Not to say you have to agree with those preaching their faiths, though.

Good thread.

:blush: Aw, thank you. I do think many atheists and agnostics don't realize they have that effect on people! I myself am quite similar when around a group of 'em that I don't know well. I shut my mouth, listen, and wonder if I should say something or not, because I might get hit with criticism for stating a belief. The people unafraid of stating thier thoughts are, of course, the crazies. :p But at the same time, in high school my best friends were Hindu, Protestant, Atheist, and a gay Catholic. I myself am Catholic, and we got along wonderfully. :D
 

Costrin

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All religious people are biased, closed-minded idiots and nothing you say can convince me otherwise.
 

Nonsensical

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Ah, quite quite true. :p I love getting in discussions with my close atheist friends, and sometimes when I agree with them on a point they ask me, "Well, then why are you Catholic?" and I say, "Oh, I mean I can see how someone can believe that, not that I myself believe it!" It confuses them to death sometimes, but really, it's just allowing yourself to walk in someone else's shoes. The trick is figuring out which ones best fit you, and sometimes none of them really do so you borrow a few and run with them. ;)



:blush: Aw, thank you. I do think many atheists and agnostics don't realize they have that effect on people! I myself am quite similar when around a group of 'em that I don't know well. I shut my mouth, listen, and wonder if I should say something or not, because I might get hit with criticism for stating a belief. The people unafraid of stating thier thoughts are, of course, the crazies. :p But at the same time, in high school my best friends were Hindu, Protestant, Atheist, and a gay Catholic. I myself am Catholic, and we got along wonderfully. :D

Ah, the essence of Fi. I think a broad spectrum of perspectives and veiw points is the beginning of an open mind. Or, having no perspectives or experiences. It could go either way. But somewhere in the middle lies Judgment. Having only one perspective or set of experiences. Not thinking outside of that. I think it is unwise, but it is understandable, especially because we have a bit of power to control it.
 

Nonsensical

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Costrin must be lying, I snapped this picture of him and JC at our last work dinner

iloveyoumorethananything.jpg
 

Alwar

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I am a staunch naturalist, and cannot stand those "in your face" atheist types. Not that they are all like this, but many of them don't seem to care so much about the truth as they do about telling people they are wrong in order to elevate themselves.
 

syckkz

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I must agree.. on both sides. Religious - Anti Religious and in between there are people who are open-minded and then there are people who push their beliefs on everyone they come in contact with.

I don't think that beliefs should be pushed on people, but I do believe that people should be free to speak their minds on their religion or lack of without being so over bearing about it and judging people who have different views.
 

alcea rosea

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Religion, or lack of religion, has nothing to do with how open your mind is. And as I have faced that stereotype myself, I wish people would stop judging others based on that.

Thoughts?

I agree. Open-mindedness has nothing to do with being religious or not. But people who judge other people are usually more eager to tell their judgement on other people's faith than people who don't lay judgements so easily on other. That is why it can seem that e.g religious people are more judging because those who are, are more visible than those who are not.

But thinking about history, it can be easily seen why religion is related to narrow-mindedness. There was a time when nothing else but religion was right. And those who disagree got tortured and killed.

So, the connection between being religious and being narrow-minded is understandable but not always the right conclusion with every religious person.
 

coberst

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To be fair-minded one must be vigilant (consciousness plus intention) of the need to treat all viewpoints alike. This demands that we adhere to intellectual standards such as accuracy and sound reasoning, which are unaffected by self-interest.

A contrast with fair-mindedness is intellectual self-centeredness.

Fair-mindedness is a challenging task that demands a family of character traits: intellectual humility, courage, empathy, honesty, perseverance, and a confidence in the value of reason.

Our culture places maximum value not on fair-mindedness but upon self-interest, and maximizing production, and consumption.


Intellectual humility begins with the recognition that absolute certainty regarding any matter of fact is beyond human capacity. There exists no mind-independent reality that we have the capacity to know. We can know only that which is “colored” by our experiences and historical perspective.

Our common sense views, coupled with philosophical tradition and religious dogma, all teach us that such is not the case, that we can find absolute certainty. This cultural tradition works aggressively against our goal of intellectual humility thus demanding that we must become more intellectually sophisticated in order to gain the level of intellectual humility required.

Intellectual courage is a difficult assignment. We all tend to place great value on our own opinion, which is more often than not just something that we grabbed as it flew by. But this is even more of a problem when we are “wedded” to something that we have a strong commitment to, for what ever reason. Our political affiliation is one example.

Intellectual courage is especially difficult, and even dangerous to our well being when we hold ideas that society considers them to be dangerous; even though we are confident that they are rationally grounded. Society often punishes severely all forms of nonconformity; the execution of Socrates by the citizens of Athens might serve as a good example.

By developing this character trait of intellectual courage we will often be ostracized from a group or even a large community. Such an experience will give us incentive to recognize that most people live their lives in such a manner as to be secure in the middle of the approval of those about us.

Intellectual courage ain’t for sissies!

Intellectual empathy is a consciousness that one must engage the imagination in an effort to intellectually place your self into the shoes of another so as to comprehend that other person as well as possible. To accomplish this transaction we must try to learn as much as possible about the other person’s situation so as to reconstruct that person’s assumptions, premises, and ideas.

Many of these ideas were gleaned from the book Critical Thinking: Tools for Taking Charge of Your Professional and Personal Life by Richard Paul and Linda Elder
 
T

ThatGirl

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Very good thread, I was going to make one like it myself but in regards to greater aspects than that of religion solely. The belief systems of others that are pushed with hypocrisy and definition of specific truths is something that just pissed me the fuck off today.

Each person is of their own, and saying that one way is best for all or there is only one way denies people their freedom of open mindedness and expansion. I get especially pissed off by people who believe peace only exists in one form, and judge others as deficient for not seeing the same view. As the op stated this can come from any number of sources, religious zealots not exempt.

Call me naive but I tend to believe each person does the best they can with the information available, as well as the desired need for contentment. I don't think anyone really wants to be fucked up or unhappy, simply given the freedom to be what they need without consequence.

This makes true open mindedness to some extent dangerous as some need to regulate the individual idea of contentment. However no threating matters are best left to the interpreter to believe as they see fit.

And in this sense, I too am a hypocrite.
 
T

ThatGirl

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Goddamn it! I can't edit my post from my phone for some reason.

"However, non threatning matters"
 

whimsical

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I definitely agree, and I am a Christian who was once an atheist so I know where these people are coming from. I don't try to force my beliefs onto anyone, and I accept and want to learn about other people's religions.
 

Alwar

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Ever notice how people impose the close-mindedness label to rationalize their disgusting habits or fetishes?

Them: So you aren't into scat porn?
Me: No that is repulsive.
Them: OH YOUR SO CLOSE-MINDED!
 
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I empathize with the OP. I think conceding that every opinion is of equal value is often confused for open-mindedness. You can believe one thing and reject another and still be open-minded. It simply means that after weighing all the opinions available to you, you've formed one of your own. This is often seen as intolerant, but it doesn't mean you don't respect other points of view, simply that you disagree with them. Too many people think open-mindedness means conceding that their opinion is as valid as yours, and that's not the case.
 
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