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Carter's Reasoning for Leaving the Baptist Church

Totenkindly

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I consider this a pretty big deal (similar to Anthony Flew's admission there might be a deist style of god).

Losing my religion for equality
Jimmy Carter

Women and girls have been discriminated against for too long in a twisted interpretation of the word of God.

I HAVE been a practising Christian all my life and a deacon and Bible teacher for many years. My faith is a source of strength and comfort to me, as religious beliefs are to hundreds of millions of people around the world. So my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when the convention's leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service....(read rest)

Thoughts? Feelings? Reflections? Problems/Holes?
 

Alwar

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It sounds like he just doesn't agree with the SBC's interpretation of the Bible, but is remaining a practicing Christian with his own interpretation?
 
S

Sniffles

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Let me guess, he resorts to citing "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

Which requires a gross misinterpretation of Scriptures, not to mention lack of understanding of the historical context in which those words were given.
 

Totenkindly

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Let me guess, he resorts to citing "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

Which requires a gross misinterpretation of Scriptures, not to mention lack of understanding of the historical context in which those words were given.

You can always check yourself, instead of guessing.
 
S

Sniffles

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You can always check yourself, instead of guessing.

Yeah I could, and have. Not to mention I had a short convo about this last night elsewhere. Not to mention such remarks are a dime a dozen these days.

I know how this all goes.
 

simulatedworld

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Let me guess, he resorts to citing "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

Which requires a gross misinterpretation of Scriptures, not to mention lack of understanding of the historical context in which those words were given.

Are you part of a particular denomination? What are your views on gender relations?
 
S

Sniffles

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Are you part of a particular denomination?
Yes I'm Catholic.

What are your views on gender relations?
Long story short: Men and women are of two different -abeit complementary- natures, and gender relations should be based upon mutual respect. Nevertheless, it's important for women to submit to the authority of men.
 

Totenkindly

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Yeah I could, and have. Not to mention I had a short convo about this last night elsewhere. Not to mention such remarks are a dime a dozen these days.

Oh. I just read it again and didn't see the quote you noted anywhere (and didn't notice any paraphrasing of it either).

*shrug*

I know how this all goes.

I guess. Especially when it starts like that.

Not a biggie, I don't want anyone to put themselves out there if they feel like they're just putting a target on their back.

I'm probably even more interested over the notion that an ISFJ steeped in the Baptist church with that much notoriety could feel strongly enough to take that sort of stand on an issue like this. I don't see that much.
 
S

Sniffles

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Oh. I just read it again and didn't see the quote you noted anywhere (and didn't notice any paraphrasing of it either).
It's still implied. It's really hard to argue for "equality" under Christian precepts without reference to this - directly or indirectly.
 

Totenkindly

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It's still implied. It's really hard to argue for "equality" under Christian precepts without reference to this - directly or indirectly.

Okay. Well, kind of hard to avoid having it dragged in, though, if the guy doesn't mention it and YOU insist it becomes part of the dialog anyway... (I mean, you're arguing with a point you're assuming he is making and saying it undermines his case because he didn't understand the verse properly.... Who can debate with you over something that isn't there?)

But objection noted.
 

Stanton Moore

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Let me guess, he resorts to citing "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

Which requires a gross misinterpretation of Scriptures, not to mention lack of understanding of the historical context in which those words were given.

Scriptures are a gross misinterpretation of reality IMO.
 

Totenkindly

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His whole argument is operating under that premise.

Sigh.

Maybe it isn't?

Maybe he wasn't thinking the scripture at all?
So he reached that idea independently?

People can make cases for equality just via life experience, and he's certainly been dealing with people all over the world for years and years, in politics AND in his Habitat for Humanity work?

And if he did, then you have to attack the reasoning he used to reach it, rather than just saying, "He didn't translate the Bible verse the way I think it should be?" That seems pretty sloppy to me, rationally-speaking.

This conversation has ceased to be interesting or fun or instructive.
 

Stanton Moore

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Evidently his ethics are not derived from Christianity, but something else. Perhaps it is a form of evolution.

Peguy for the rebuttal....
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Thoughts? Feelings? Reflections? Problems/Holes?
I think it shows he has the ability to separate principle from a contextualized application of a principle unlike the majority of people.
 
S

Sniffles

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Sigh.

Maybe it isn't?

Maybe he wasn't thinking the scripture at all?
So he reached that idea independently?

People can make cases for equality just via life experience, and he's certainly been dealing with people all over the world for years and years, in politics AND in his Habitat for Humanity work?

Carter here is expressing his reasoning for leaving the SBC over their views on particular issues, which he clearly states in his view violates "not just of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but also the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, Moses and the prophets, Muhammad, and founders of other great religions - all of whom have called for proper and equitable treatment of all the children of God."

And I give reference here to the verse(s) of St. Paul that one would most directly refer in making such an argument, and you seem to have a problem with this - namely because Carter does not literally refer to the verse in question. He's still making a reference to it, whether he literally states it or not.

And if he did, then you have to attack the reasoning he used to reach it, rather than just saying, "He didn't translate the Bible verse the way I think it should be?" That seems pretty sloppy to me, rationally-speaking.

I find it sloppy to automatically assume that this whole discussion is merely about personal interpretation. That certainly is consistent with the Protestant perspective; but Catholics and Orthodox operate on a completely framework here.
 

simulatedworld

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Yes I'm Catholic.


Long story short: Men and women are of two different -abeit complementary- natures, and gender relations should be based upon mutual respect. Nevertheless, it's important for women to submit to the authority of men.

Can you explain this position or link to someone who can?
 
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