A Preacher is at My House

[Into It]

He's staying here this week. I'm going to piece together a very solid argument for my stances. I'm sure he will want to speak with me about it because he probably wants to save my soul. He won't.

So I want to ask you, what questions would you ask a preacher at your disposal? I will ask him. And I invite you to post brief arguments or to point out contradictions that I should bring up, so that he may explain them away.

 

[Athenian200]

Why would you let one of those in your house? Aren't you scared? Personally, I'd be afraid those guys would throw out my Tarot and Astrology stuff.

Anyway...

1. Why would God only wish to save the people of one nation and forsake all the others, despite having created them all?

2. Why are all the rules of the Old Testament still given so much weight since the game supposedly changed quite a bit in the New Testament from rules to mercy?

3. What makes Christianity more inherently valid than any other religion? Do you honestly think being in a culture that valued Christianity had nothing to do with your choice of religion? Then explain why most people, regardless of the religion in question, end up valuing whatever religion was valued by either their parents, their friends, or the area they grew up in, and why so few of them ever question that religion. How can you possibly hope to justify saying that you are right to value what your parents and peers valued, but that others are wrong for doing the same?

Ah, sorry. I just have too many arguments against people of faith.

 

[Scott]

If you ask those questions, the answers will likely be something like:

1. He doesn't.

2. They aren't.

3. a. Its truth
b. of course not
c. do I still have to explain given my answer to b.?
d. because I think there's more to my epistemic foundation than only 'what my peers valued'.

Doesn't seem very interesting.

 

[Wiley45]

I don't think I'd ask him anything.

 

[Ivy]

Why bother?

 

[Athenian200]

Why bother?

Probably boredom. He's going to have a preacher in his house, so he figures he might as well have some fun arguing with him over religion. People talk to preachers about religion all the time, so they're probably the best at defending it.

I personally would be afraid to have a preacher in my house, and I'd probably be afraid to admit that I didn't share their religion if I did.

 

[Wiley45]

^ My dad's a preacher, so I'm preeety used to the preacher types by now.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I personally would be afraid to have a preacher in my house, and I'd probably be afraid to admit that I didn't share their religion if I did.

You know, they're people like any other. it's not like they're going to eat your face.



Probably.

 

[Owl]

Is he Christian?

Why don't you ask this pastor to prove that God exists?

Ask him the following series of questions, please.

If it cannot be proven that God exists, then how can it be clear that God exists? If it is not clear that God exists, then how can God hold us responsible for believing in him, or his son? Isn't God supposed to be just? Would a just God condemn someone to everlasting misery for doing something that person couldn't know to be wrong?

 

[Kalach]

What if he thinks your soul is okay and doesn't need any special saving?

 

[Athenian200]

What if he thinks your soul is okay and doesn't need any special saving?

We're talking about Christian preachers, here. If you're not a Christian (which Into It isn't), they're going to think you're deluded and need help badly. Ironically, we think the same thing about them.

 

[Ivy]

We're talking about Christian preachers, here. If you're not a Christian (which Into It isn't), they're going to think you're deluded and need help badly. Ironically, we think the same thing about them.

I know several who don't think that.

 

[Athenian200]

I know several who don't think that.

You do? I kind of thought you were required to think non-Christians were wrong (and possibly insane) in order to be a Christian... especially the major Christian, the preaching kind. They're the BIG, strongly convicted Christians, not just your everyday Christians. I always figured preachers were more extreme in their faith than the others, because they were the leaders and propagators of the religion. They're not?

EDIT: Come to think of it, I might be confusing them with Missionaries.

 

[Ivy]

You do? I kind of thought you were required to think non-Christians were wrong in order to be a Christian... especially the major Christian, the preaching kind. They're the BIG, strongly convicted Christians, not just your everyday Christians. I always figured preachers were more extreme than the others, because they were the leaders and propagators of the religion. They're not?

No, not all of them. Although they're not the majority, many Christians are also universalists. Most of the Quakers I've met are Christian universalists. Many of the Episcopalians I know, including the vicar of our church, are also universalists. She is a strongly convicted Christian who firmly believes that everyone is a child of God.

The same is true of missionaries by the way. It depends in part on the denomination. Some of the more fundamentalist denominations are more into evangelism, and that is reflected in the preaching style and the behavior of missionaries. Other denominations consider the work of missionaries to be basically like community service. Building homes for the poor, donating food, working in homeless shelters, etc.

 

[Athenian200]

No, not all of them. Although they're not the majority, many Christians are also universalists. Most of the Quakers I've met are Christian universalists. Many of the Episcopalians I know, including the vicar of our church, are also universalists. She is a strongly convicted Christian who firmly believes that everyone is a child of God.

If you don't mind my asking, what's a universalist?

The main issue I have with most religions is their insistence that their perspective is the only correct one, despite their similarity. It isn't so much that I don't believe there's a God, so much as I don't believe that any single depiction of God is more perfect than any other (because those who created/recorded/translated/copied the depictions were themselves imperfect). So essentially, what I claim is ignorance of the details of God's nature/will that most major religions claim to know, aside from the major principles they all seem to share, like the idea of murder/theft being wrong, or that compassion and mercy are virtues, etc.

The comparison, I suppose, is that if you have different artists try to draw the same scene, the pictures will all look very different yet similar in many ways. That's the scenario I see with most major religions.

That would make me agnostic, I think.

 

[Ivy]

If you don't mind my asking, what's a universalist?

The main issue I have with most religions is their insistence that their perspective is the only correct one, despite their similarity. It isn't so much that I don't believe there's a God, so much as I don't believe that any single depiction of God is more perfect than any other. So essentially, what I claim is ignorance of the details of God's nature that most major religions claim to know, aside from the major principles they all seem to share, like the idea of murder/theft being wrong, or that compassion and mercy are virtues, etc.

A universalist believes that whatever benefits their idea of God offers are available to everyone, not just the members of their religion. Some of them don't have a specific idea in mind when they think of God. In fact, what you describe is very much like the Unitarian Universalist perspective. My husband grew up in the UU church, and says that Sunday school was basically Religion 101. They learned about all religions, and weren't told that any of them were more valid than any others. The major precept of the UU church is "the inherent worth and dignity of every human being."

Even Christians who aren't universalists don't necessarily believe that non-Christians are wrong and/or insane or "deluded and need help badly". There's just an awful lot of diversity among Christian beliefs.

 

[Kalach]

We're talking about Christian preachers, here. If you're not a Christian (which Into It isn't), they're going to think you're deluded and need help badly. Ironically, we think the same thing about them.

Well, I grant you, Sir Into It has often announced that his soul is in disrepair and he doesn't require help with it, so how about laying this trap for the Preach:

"You only believe in God because of your Meyer Briggs Type."

Cruel, and unusual.

 

[prplchknz]

what? that wouldn't work they'd look at you like you were nuts? and it makes no sense. Because, your type doesn't determine whether or not you believe in god, it might influence it in someway. so even if he knows MBTI he could easily dismiss that argument.

wait are you joking? please tell me you are I can sleep better if you are.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

What kind of preacher is he? And why do you care so much?

 

[wildcat]

He's staying here this week. I'm going to piece together a very solid argument for my stances. I'm sure he will want to speak with me about it because he probably wants to save my soul. He won't.

So I want to ask you, what questions would you ask a preacher at your disposal? I will ask him. And I invite you to post brief arguments or to point out contradictions that I should bring up, so that he may explain them away.

Hospitality is about the guest.
It is not about the host.

To win is not to understand.
Winning precludes understanding.