Balanced masculine and feminine energies

[Totenkindly]

Yes! You understand completely. This pleases me immensely.

I am glad to have my humble thoughts please you, master.

*snickers*

Yes, this is what I am getting at and why I think ENTP male / INFJ female is a good match.

I don't think it's a bad one, and you have the N connection there.

More interesting to me is how I more often have seen ENTP and ISFJ matches. The INFJ female can get more ethereal sometimes (and, uh, not "carnal" enough)... whereas the physical affection level of ENTP and ISFJ might fit together better... I guess, I really don't know. And like I said, I have seen more commonly INFJ women go for S guys...

If ENTP and INFJ is a good matchup, is the S better for the INFJ (and why?) and so he wins out... or is it simply because there are more S guys to choose from vs ENTP guys?

Go for it. You are very insightful.

I find the gender thing easier to examine where there is overlap, or one side attempting to be the other and seeing how successful it is. Sorry for the long story, but I think it emphasizes that there ARE some gender differences that express themselves in the middle of the bell curve even if there's quite a variety of people in either gender.

I was out with some friends a few weekends ago, and one of the people out with us was a crossdresser. She's in her 50's, works as a salesman for a living, is probably ESTP type, and classes herself as a "woman" (she'd complain if someone in the all-female group used the word "guys" to refer to everyone).... but her only outfits consisted of clubbing clothes (leather boots, black hose, black mini) and moreover she was exhibiting what came across as male behavior.

I had forgotten that the driver had not visited my city, so I ended up giving her directions a bit late to make the turn (I was in the back seat) and the city also has quite a number of one-way streets of which I haven't memorized the map completely; and the CD'er riding copilot immediately started cutting me down in a way that I perceived as very masculine... the way that guys talk when they rip on each other's abilities -- things like, "She obviously has no clue what she's talking about" and "You don't have any idea how to give directions" and other comments like that.

This went on for most of the evening -- at one point, I thought a certain bar was only 3-4 blocks away, and it ended up being 6-8 blocks depending on how you determine a block (I think in terms of "main roads" as blocks and the buildings do change numbers based on when THOSE blocks change; but there are very thin side streets that I guess you could try to label as "blocks" too.) And she would cut me down repeatedly for this sort of thing.

Note: I have never had another woman of ANY type talk to me this way, even when they've been poking fun at mistakes I've made. I also got the impression she wasn't doing it to be mean, to me it was just how she was used to thinking and interacting with other people. Again, it reminded me of how guys seem to spar for dominance and show their strength in the more traditionally male groups.

Finally when we were driving somewhere else, when I went to give the driver advice on which lane to be in (because for this particular on-ramp you have to go right in order to go left on the highway, it loops under and is deceptive), and she talked right over top me and said, "Don't listen to her, she doesn't know WHAT the hell she's talking about, you'll just get lost if you listen to HER!" And she didn't laugh when she said it either, there were no social cues to make it into a joke -- it just came off as one more slam. (Note: My navigation is good, I usually don't even need maps -- I'm very good at getting places I've only been once, just by look and feel.)

I didn't say anything for the rest of the trip. Honestly, I just wanted to go home, I don't have time to waste on boorish people.

She finally asked what was wrong after we got there (I was trying to just not even discuss it but was having trouble getting past it without being cold/detached the rest of the evening)... and immediately, while it was obvious she felt bad for hurting my feelings, claiming it wasn't her intent, the way she was talking to me was exactly the way I have seen inexperienced guys attempt to placate upset girlfriends... Basically, the goal was stop me from feeling bad about things so that she would be off the hotseat and everything could be casual and fun, rather than resolving the actual conflict and then moving on for real.

I guess my point is that there are approaches that are instinctive for the middle of the bell curve for each gender, and even when someone tries to fit into the other camp, the thinking and instincts don't change. Even with the INTP Wimmens group here, despite the more "traditionally masculine" aspects of the women involved, the tone is different than what I experienced that night.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

And like I said, I have seen more commonly INFJ women go for S guys...

If ENTP and INFJ is a good matchup, is the S better for the INFJ (and why?) and so he wins out... or is it simply because there are more S guys to choose from vs ENTP guys?

I've never had a strong interest in S types (except for ISFPs), besides physical atttraction. I prefer the "outside the box" attitude that is seen with Ne, and an intellectual bent. That may just be me though.

 

[A Schnitzel]

getting upset that someone texts them as an RSVP rather than calling - gah!

Hah. An INFJ just texted me to invite me to her birthday the other day.

 

[Synarch]

I don't think it's a bad one, and you have the N connection there.

I think the goals of the ENTP and the INFJ are very similar. They both want to understand the world and find meaning amongst all the splendor and dross and, in doing so, adorn life and make it sparkle with romance. Transmuting the lead of reality into something intense and golden.

I don't know if this comes as easily to an S type guy, though I am likely just prejudiced and philosophically cock blocking.

Also, maybe this might be a place where the Enneagram could lend a better perspective as there are different INFJ's and ENTP's on the Enneagram spectrum.

More interesting to me is how I more often have seen ENTP and ISFJ matches. The INFJ female can get more ethereal sometimes (and, uh, not "carnal" enough)... whereas the physical affection level of ENTP and ISFJ might fit together better... I guess, I really don't know. And like I said, I have seen more commonly INFJ women go for S guys...

My ENTP brother is married to an ISFJ, but he's really different from me. He's a lot more hedonistic and outdoorsy and less interested in say, reading or learning about certain impractical subjects. He also seems way more gregarious and always has friends around. I am friendly but pretty aloof and reserved as well. I think there are different types of ENTP's. He and his wife are both very carnal and bodily, but it lacks a certain romance to me. He also finds body humor funny while I do not. I'm more reserved, but I strive for something more intense than pure physicality. To do this requires a certain mirroring of similar attitudes.

If ENTP and INFJ is a good matchup, is the S better for the INFJ (and why?) and so he wins out... or is it simply because there are more S guys to choose from vs ENTP guys?

I think it's that there are different types of ENTP's and INFJ's. Also, depending on the situation I probably seem more like an ESTP. Like when I am partying for example.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

INFJ Female: INFJ females are very feminine, more traditionally feminine than other types.

How is INFJ more traditionally feminine than say, ESFJ or ISFJ?

 

[avolkiteshvara]

I thought this thread would be about Hermaphrodites.

 

[Tiltyred]

Random --

Sanveane, IMO, that "weird, fluffy and avaricious mindset" girly stuff is the antithesis of femininity. I can't wait until that style of being female is passe. It's obnoxious.

Jennifer, you said "The INFJ female can get more ethereal sometimes (and, uh, not "carnal" enough)... " Ok, how did you know? (or does everybody know that) It took me years to understand what was necessary in that regard, and with practice I could get to the carnal enough level -- the problem is finding anyone who can go to my ethereal level. Which type, in your opinion, is the likeliest for that? (I'm so impressed by your post in general that I'm ready to sit at your feet and learn. :-D)

The test at PersonalDNA | Your True Self Revealed - Fast Fun Free Personality Tests has a feminine/masculine axis, if anybody's interested in some objective measurement.

Great topic. I like this thread.

 

[Synarch]

How is INFJ more traditionally feminine than say, ESFJ or ISFJ?

I think SFJ's and NFJ's are likely pretty similar in some of the feminine aspects.

 

[sculpting]

Most entp men I meet use a lot of tert Fe which makes then seem a sweet-feminine?-at times. ENTP women do not seem this way.

The few INFJ women I have met, n=2, are both feminine but use a lot of Ti and have very strong boundaries. The INFJ guy, the only one I know, seems just like a normal guy.

So maybe it isnt balancing of chick/dude energies so much as compensation of T/F to societal expectations?

However I could see Ni/Ne being very stablizing.

Perhaps the two are mixed in this thread.

 

[INTJ123]

the only infj I know is a dude and he's way girly, we made fun of him cuz he always takes forever to get ready to go out or "pretty himself up".

 

[hommefatal]

I have done several tests. I am 50% masculine and 50% feminine, often leaning a bit more to feminine.