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How many of you are "real" atheists ?

redacted

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I consider myself a real atheist because I actively believe that there is not a god. Just like I believe I'm not in the matrix.

I reject religion (and always have) because it just doesn't make any sense. It seems like mass denial. In preschool I equated God with the tooth fairy; I thought eventually the adults would come out and tell the real truth :)
 

Virtual ghost

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What should 'real' atheism entail?

Moreover, what distinguishes 'real' from 'unreal' atheism?

The the entire idea of "real" atheism is just a byproduct of the way I think and my social environment.

Real atheism - you were never baptized (or whatever) and you live as an atheist.

"Unreal" atheism as you call it - you were baptized and you live as an atheist.
 

Fluffywolf

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Well, I was baptised but there wasn't much I had to say about that. :p

And my parents baptised me for show as we're living in a relatively small town, where people tend to know each other. And since they had a company they did these things as to avoid elitist rumours from spreading.

Back in that time, religion was (and still kinda is) pretty important to a lot of people around here. And being an Atheist is inexcusable for many of the religious people here. Especially among the older people. That elitism seems to have died with the newer generation though.
 

Colors

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The the entire idea of "real" atheism is just a byproduct of the way I think and my social environment.

Real atheism - you were never baptized (or whatever) and you live as an atheist.

"Unreal" atheism as you call it - you were baptized and you live as an atheist.

Well, doesn't that view disregard the concept of religion as a belief? People can change their minds... is there some sort of unbaptizism they can undergo?
 

Virtual ghost

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Well, doesn't that view disregard the concept of religion as a belief? People can change their minds... is there some sort of unbaptizism they can undergo?

Yes, it disregards this concept.
If you are asking about my country I honestly don't know. Even if they can be unbaptized people don't do this.
But my country is 90% Catholic (on paper) so there are no conversions in general. The entire thing is quite homogeneous over here.
The other thing is how many people are actually believers.
 

Into It

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I really don't believe in a God, so I think I'm a real atheist.
I rejected religion because there is no universal a priori agreement on the matter, and all that remains is the senses. Religion is a rejection of the senses - a rejection of the only faculty we have to decide what is real and what is not real. Knowledge handed down through generations is only helpful to me inasmuch as I can either understand and retrace it through reason or apply it practically. For instance, I accept Newton's laws because they are reasonable, and though I do not understand computers or DVDs, I will accept them because they are of practicle use to me. Religion does not stand to the unbending code of reason that I apply to it, and it is of no use to me practically.
 

simulatedworld

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"Organized atheism" is kind of pointless.

Not necessarily stupid, just entirely pointless. It's simply the absence of any belief.

Anyone who claims 100% certainty of God's nonexistence (or of anything besides his own existence, for that matter) is delusional, so "positive atheism" isn't even worth discussing. Are you asking how many people have absolute certainty that there is no God? What exactly do you mean by "on paper"?

Besides that, so-called "real atheists" are those who simply lack total faith in any particular religious system.

I rejected the Christianity my mother raised me with, largely due to way too many obvious logical inconsistencies, but I still support a number of the values associated with it--just for different reasons that I worked out on my own, not because they're associated with it.

Being an atheist doesn't mean you automatically dismiss any and all moral values that the popular religions promote--that's stupid. It just means you lack any particular religious faith because you don't see a reason to devote yourself wholly to any particular one over any particular other.
 

Shaula

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Hold your horses! I didn't think atheism was such an exclusive club.

"Organized atheism" is kind of pointless.

Not necessarily stupid, just entirely pointless. It's simply the absence of any belief.

Anyone who claims 100% certainty of God's nonexistence (or of anything besides his own existence, for that matter) is delusional, so "positive atheism" isn't even worth discussing. Are you asking how many people have absolute certainty that there is no God? What exactly do you mean by "on paper"?

Besides that, so-called "real atheists" are those who simply lack total faith in any particular religious system.

I rejected the Christianity my mother raised me with, largely due to way too many obvious logical inconsistencies, but I still support a number of the values associated with it--just for different reasons that I worked out on my own, not because they're associated with it.

Being an atheist doesn't mean you automatically dismiss any and all moral values that the popular religions promote--that's stupid. It just means you lack any particular religious faith because you don't see a reason to devote yourself wholly to any particular one over any particular other.
I'm going to defend AO here.

To fully appreciate this topic I think one must change their perspective of thinking to fit the cultural parameters of AO's country. As he said earlier:

I am sorry if I am too vague. Which is probably because of cultural differences. In my country it was completely normal to have lists of religious people in the times od communism. So asking "What are you on the paper?" stayed as a phrase to this day.


I am simply not familiar about how you do things in the US.


What I am asking how many of you never got baptised or whatever the first ritual in other religions is.
The the entire idea of "real" atheism is just a byproduct of the way I think and my social environment.

Real atheism - you were never baptized (or whatever) and you live as an atheist.

"Unreal" atheism as you call it - you were baptized and you live as an atheist.
I don't think he meant for this topic to divide people into "true believers of athiesm" and those "who claim to be athiests but are really not because they participated in some kind of religious ceremony or share moral similarities". Despite that I am unable to read his mind I would guess his question was of a simpler matter. (Note what I bolded!) I think his usage of the words "true" and "real" here are probably not the best as it denotes negative connotations towards those athiests, like myself, who are not athiest "on paper" according to his culture.

Now this concept of "on paper" does not exist here in the US and probably not much elsewhere in the "Western World". I think some of us are mistaking whatever religion they truely believe in openly at this moment to be their religion "on paper" even if they had been previously baptised. However this does not fit the criteria that AO was looking for.

By claiming to be an "Unreal Atheist" in this context, I assume, does not mean that your belief in atheism is on a different level than a "Real Atheist". It is simply a term to differentiate those who have been baptised/whatever and those who have not.

In other words guys, I don't think AO is being intentionally judgmental, exclusive, or offensive. But due to these misuderstandings we could be interpreting him as being so. :)
 

CrystalViolet

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I didn't think AO's point was hard to understand either.
I thought he was asking what religion are you "officially" and do you currently "practise" stated religion. If not, why not? I didn't detect any tone of elitism. Just a request for info.

To answer the op, I'm not athetist...I'm an agnostic (does that disqualify me), who is officially Presbyterian, and semi-officially Baptist (was "born again" at 15).
The reason I don't "practise" is for what is essentially a fringe organisation these days (or at least in the contries I have resided in) they have questionable moral practises, and can be down right hypocritical, and I detest the amount of conformatity that is imposed with the community.
 

Queen Kat

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My parents are die-hard atheists and raised me that way. I don't think I'm such of a die-hard atheist, I'm open for other things as well.
 

Oddly Refined

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Agnostic. Simply, the emotional appeal of religion was dwarfed by the realization that there is no way to prove the existence of a god(s). In the end, logic won.
 

Mole

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Usually an atheist doesn't worship a particular god.

So there are christian atheists, and hindu atheists and judaic atheists and muslim atheists. And there are atheists who don't worship Zeus or Poseidon.

So atheism is dependent on a particular god.

I mean which god don't you worship?

What kind of atheist are you?
 

lunalum

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Usually an atheist doesn't worship a particular god.

So there are christian atheists, and hindu atheists and judaic atheists and muslim atheists. And there are atheists who don't worship Zeus or Poseidon.

So atheism is dependent on a particular god.

I mean which god don't you worship?

What kind of atheist are you?

Well... usually an atheist, by definition, doesn't worship any of them, so I cannot answer questions based on a false premise. Where are you getting this idea of only rejecting one god to be an atheist?
 

simulatedworld

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I always wonder, AO. As an atheist, do I act so different as I would if I believed in a god? I don't think so. I have greater belief in my moral fiber than that.

What religion is there to reject? People aren't born believing in the Bible, the Koran, etc. They are taught. Certainly on the physical level, they can be forced into the status quo of religious ritual.

And maybe when they are too young to learn fully/ to truly knowlingly accept religion into their life it is just the only path that appears to unveil before the, but as adults, I think people choose to include religion into their lives.

But maybe I'm strange. I think most people consider "believing in God/religion" as a state of being, a default that doesn't change once you set the "mode". I think that it has to be nurtured, otherwise it is in name only and not in reality.

Well of course not, see, there's no such as thing as inductively piecing together an intuitively reasonable and consistent moral code of your own.

No no, that won't do at all, you need ABSOLUTE DEFINITE CERTAINTY that not only are all of your moral beliefs incontrovertibly true, fundamental properties of the universe, but also that you'll be rewarded by a payoff ratio of Infinity:1 in the afterlife after you die for following them. :doh:


I'm well aware that logical consistency isn't the point, so I respect religion for the feeling of comfort and safety that it brings many people. Fair enough, but...when you poke a bee hive with a stick, the godless little heathen bees inside are going to exercise a lot less restraint in stinging you.

Is anybody getting why it's intuitively obvious that literal interpretation of religion is absurd?
 

onemoretime

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There's no need for a supreme being in my conceptualization of the universe. I think that's what atheism actually is - a deity simply not being. Within the Eastern context, I'd say that God is mu or wu.
 

Oom

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I'm christian by baptism and am atheistic. Have been since 9 or so.

My views on religion and mainly christians are based on the fact that many of the die hard christians I encountered when growing up were rude and shameless about pushing their ideals upon anyone they wanted to. Sort of like how I dislike door to door salesmanship and I would never participate in those "sell stuff to your neighbors" things at school. Intruding on people and their time is one of the rudest actions I can think of that is socially acceptable.

The bad thing is that I tend to lean towards nihilism, which is something I don't like. I'd love terribly for something to believe in.

AO, which country do you live in to have 90% of all people be catholic? Ireland?:newwink:
 

Totenkindly

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And maybe when they are too young to learn fully/ to truly knowlingly accept religion into their life it is just the only path that appears to unveil before the, but as adults, I think people choose to include religion into their lives.

I think we should again consider that not everyone operates the same way. We are a type site, we need to remember that different personalities prioritize different things in life.

For types that instinctive collect information and then make internal judgments based on the essence of that data, changing one's religious beliefs is far simpler than for a personality type that is imprinted by the original worldview and then has values like loyalty, faithfulness, family unity, and similar things being prioritized with basically evaluate one's behavior in conformance with the original worldview.

The difference in priorities (from the perspective of the individual personality) helps to explain in part why some people grow up and end up leaving or rejecting the religion they were taught and why others end up remaining or even finding and clinging to it.

So in regards to the quote above, you might believe that adults are indeed "choosing" their worldview; I am proposing that, while I think that is at core the responsibility of every adult (and they are indeed "choosing" it), the anxiety they would face at rejecting it is FAR more than anxiety I might have felt or some other evaluative-style personality might have felt. Our personalities are geared to evaluate, then accept/reject based on data, our foundation is located within the evaluation process itself and not necessarily the outcome, we trust our PROCESS; but if you're a personality who only has one way of viewing the world and godliness is based on being faithful to it and you can't SEE another, it's nearly impossible to rise above the anxiety of casting it aside and not being able to trust your PERCEPTION. What would take its place?
 
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