So is there anything worse than death/dying?

[Haphazard]

Isn't the obvious answer to this eternal life without eternal youth?

 

[Fluffywolf]

Isn't the obvious answer to this eternal life without eternal youth?

Not really, old age will eventually wear down the brain, self awareness leaving alltogether. Which is the same as death, by my standards.

 

[jenocyde]

Death is fine. Dying is not. The process of dying is one that I dread. I don't know if a long slow painful death is worse than one that happens instantaneously. In a long one, you suffer physically. In a short one, you are unprepared (not like it matters when you're dead, but the thought of it bothers me.) Either way, there is nothing worse in my eyes than dying. But I'm ok with being dead.

 

[Sentura]

Death is fine. Dying is not. The process of dying is one that I dread. I don't know if a long slow painful death is worse than one that happens instantaneously. In a long one, you suffer physically. In a short one, you are unprepared (not like it matters when you're dead, but the thought of it bothers me.) Either way, there is nothing worse in my eyes than dying. But I'm ok with being dead.

i agree. i can imagine exactly how unpleasant it would be to suddenly not be able to breathe anymore.

also, boredom. i would pick death over boredom, even though i seldom experience it these days.

 

[Thalassa]

I can think of several fates worse than death which include, but are not limited to, having 75% of your body burned to the point that you're almost constantly in pain and being kept alive only on machines and morphine, being raped and tortured repeatedly over a long period of time, and being so old that everyone that you once loved is dead or has moved away and you're physically and mentally declining and left to rot in a nursing home where you aren't being properly cared for. I think I'd take death over those, but yeah, otherwise death is pretty bad - or rather, dying. It's the dying that scares me, not the death.

 

[Into It]

For me, no.

Death for me is to cease existing. Anything existing is better than death.

Now, I have never been tortured so this is hypothetical. But I think I would be able to take any form of non lethal torture without wishing to die. I would even prefer eternal suffering over the notion of not existing.

So, If you were say...on fire...and the flames could not be extinguished...this would be a preferable state to those awful many years before you were born? You really thought they were that bad? Or am I misunderstanding you?

In response to the OP, off the top of my head, I can think of one thing worse than death/dying, and that's death dying.

The inability to rest...it's a horrific thought. That's why the universe is so wonderful...It is inclined to produce various forms of consciousness, various eyes with which to view itself, and it expands infinitely (I believe this is the most likely theory), and consciousness itself may never perish, while the individual vehicles may.

In Plato's "Apology of Socrates," Socrates says that he would not ask for any punishment other than death, because was not guilty of the crimes of which he was accused, and it would be senseless to ask for an evil when death may not be an evil at all. He said to ask any kind of person from anywhere to recount his most peaceful times, and nights of wonderful, deep sleep would be counted highly among them. For this reason, if death is simply oblivion, then compared to the how we live, death would be "an unspeakable gain."

If you think about this a lot and would like some good reading on it, I recommend "The Last Days of Socrates" by Plato. There are interesting words on death by one of our great thinkers, as he sits in his cell after condemnation and speaks with his closest friends.

 

[Into It]

Isn't the obvious answer to this eternal life without eternal youth?

Even eternal life WITH eternal youth is a horrific prospect. Within a hundred trillion years or so, you will have learned all that you can learn... within the next 2^100,000,000,000,000 years or so, you will become bored. After that...I dread the thought.

 

[Sentura]

Even eternal life WITH eternal youth is a horrific prospect. Within a hundred trillion years or so, you will have learned all that you can learn... within the next 2^100,000,000,000,000 years or so, you will become bored. After that...I dread the thought.

you really don't understand the concept of infinity, do you?

 

[Into It]

you really don't understand the concept of infinity, do you?

Maybe I don't. Explain it to me, please.

But keep in mind, if motion exists in infinity, then time can be measured.

 

[kyuuei]

Why is there a presupposition that death is something bad? I'll humor you, though. I think pain is worse. At least from a biological perspective, pain is a feast for your nervous system, and it doesn't even feel any good. You don't need to worry about any of that once you die.

An interesting mindset, and one totally opposite of my own.

I don't know if I agree with it, I think that pain is a temporary thing.. and I don't think temporary things need permanent solutions, when speaking on the subject of mortality and pain. Pain is a part of life, and disliking the experiences of life would suggest one to assume death is better.

When I die, I will die. I do not hope for it, pray for it, or seek it actively. I do this all for life, and my on-going quest of life keeps me from slowing down to experience the aspect of death. I'll ponder on it when I am well and ready to... When I am in pain, when I am distressed, starving, poor, and broken.. death is the last thing that enters my mind. It is survival, life, and the ability to be breathing long enough to fix the pain that presents itself. Death is not a fix for pain, death is a fix for life, imo. Pleasure is the opposite of pain.. so I would seek pleasure when I am in pain.

 

[Sentura]

Maybe I don't. Explain it to me, please.

But keep in mind, if motion exists in infinity, then time can be measured.

even with all those years combined you still wouldn't be able to understand everything about the universe and what's beyond. there isn't a limit on the knowledge to be found in this world.

 

[kyuuei]

Edited for deletion.

In regards to those in the process of dying:

My personal philosophy is that people that are dying terminally, take a cancer person for example, is leading by example and making the most of their life, I have no excuse to not strive for survival no matter what.

I don't know yet my stance on vegetable-states, and things of this nature.

 

[Fluffywolf]

So, If you were say...on fire...and the flames could not be extinguished...this would be a preferable state to those awful many years before you were born? You really thought they were that bad? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Before birth and after death is both the same for me. Nothing. So yes. And physical pain is the least of my concerns, I believe that any and every form of physical pain is overcomable.

That said, I have an extremely high threshold for physical pain which according to some doctors is apparantly borderline unnatural.

Only emotional pain has my thoughts wavering ever slightly, as I can only guess at this time just how deep emotional pain can go. Perhaps there is a form of emotional pain unknown to me that would do the trick. I don't think there is, but I couldn't say that with any certainty. But even then, as long as I remain my identity, my self awareness and my integrity. I really don't care what state I am in. Whatever state is prefered than death. For clarification, I stated before. Loosing self awareness and identity, is for me the same as death, the same as ceasing to exist, or dying. So, becoming some living thoughtless undead or some senile plant or something is not my idea of living in which case these morals will no longer apply.

Giving up on life is something I will never consider in any circumstance, unless in sacrifice to save the lives that mean more to me than my own life. But never for any personal discomfort or pain.

And it does scare me that I can write this post with conviction. Ofcourse, I prefer not to go through great lengths of pain to stay alive, an alternative without pain is much prefered! But I'm certain that should I end up in such a hypothetical situation. I would not give up.



But another hypothetical scenario. Suppose I am on the verge of dying, but apparantly, there is an afterlife. And I find that out, but before I am dead. Should such an event come to pass. Then my morals regarding this topic would also change. As I base my beliefs on the option that makes most sense to me now. Which is that there is no afterlife. Learning of an afterlife would ofcourse change my entire belief system. Death might not seem bad anymore then.

But gee, would I be skeptical. I'd probably doubt my own mind and try to stick with living regardless, lol.

Bottomline is, death will never be an option for me. But I fear I have no say in these things.

 

[Into It]

even with all those years combined you still wouldn't be able to understand everything about the universe and what's beyond. there isn't a limit on the knowledge to be found in this world.

Well, you could count every blade of grass on the planet over and over, and it would change each time. So, I guess you're right. Anyway, I wouldn't want to be doomed to this.

 

[juggernaut]

After watching three separate family members battle cancer (two of whom lost), I can say I am definitely outtie when things start to get ugly. As a resident of a "Death with Dignity" state I will be all over that prescription when my time comes. If I don't make it back to Washington for some reason I'll move to Finland.

 

[heart]

My personal philosophy is that people that are dying terminally, take a cancer person for example, is leading by example and making the most of their life, I have no excuse to not strive for survival no matter what.

You know, they don't all. Some are in total agony or feel so fatigued they can't be all that or be a lead by example type and they don't want to and they resent the pressure that others place on them to do so.

It's a modern myth that illness always brings out the best in us where we're always able to make the most of our lives. Sometimes it just really sucks and people are in situations where they feel they are a drain on others or they can't afford medical care, etc. There are some really ugly, stark moments in life.

 

[Into It]

Before birth and after death is both the same for me. Nothing. So yes. And physical pain is the least of my concerns, 1.I believe that any and every form of physical pain is overcomable.

That said, I have an extremely high threshold for physical pain which according to some doctors is apparantly borderline unnatural.

Only emotional pain has my thoughts wavering ever slightly, as I can only guess at this time just how deep emotional pain can go. Perhaps there is a form of emotional pain unknown to me that would do the trick. I don't think there is, but I couldn't say that with any certainty. But even then, as long as I remain my identity, my self awareness and my integrity. I really don't care what state I am in. Whatever state is prefered than death. For clarification, I stated before. Loosing self awareness and identity, is for me the same as death, the same as ceasing to exist, or dying. So, becoming some living thoughtless undead or some senile plant or something is not my idea of living in which case these morals will no longer apply.

Giving up on life is something I will never consider in any circumstance, unless in sacrifice to save the lives that mean more to me than my own life. But never for any personal discomfort or pain.

And it does scare me that I can write this post with conviction. Ofcourse, I prefer not to go through great lengths of pain to stay alive, an alternative without pain is much prefered! But I'm certain that should I end up in such a hypothetical situation. I would not give up.



But another hypothetical scenario. Suppose I am on the verge of dying, but apparantly, there is an afterlife. And I find that out, but before I am dead. Should such an event come to pass. Then my morals regarding this topic would also change. As I base my beliefs on the option that makes most sense to me now. Which is that there is no afterlife. Learning of an afterlife would ofcourse change my entire belief system. Death might not seem bad anymore then.

But gee, would I be skeptical. I'd probably doubt my own mind and try to stick with living regardless, lol.

Bottomline is, death will never be an option for me. But I fear I have no say in these things.

1.90 years on fire would surely be difficult to withstand, but you are correct that it would be possible to overcome.

Placing that much importance on personal identity sounds foolish to me. It isn't worth all that pain. But in a way, it's admirable. If you can overcome pain, I suppose you can overcome anything.

In any case, I hope that you can make peace with this event before it comes to pass.

 

[Into It]

After watching three separate family members battle cancer (two of whom lost), I can say I am definitely outtie when things start to get ugly. As a resident of a "Death with Dignity" state I will be all over that prescription when my time comes. If I don't make it back to Washington for some reason I'll move to Finland.

Tell me about your state.

 

[kyuuei]

^ I entirely agree heart. Sometimes there's nothing pretty, aspiring, or inspiring about terminal illness aside the inspiration of death as an option.

But. I am not terminally ill yet. I cannot pretend to be in agony over something I am not experiencing. We always choose our role models, and those we look to for guidence, and direction.. I would choose those that are leading the way for my inspiration.

I can't deny or pretend like the world is a totally optimistic place. Some things in this world are pure destruction, chaos, and torment. I suppose I'll figure out how to deal with those things when and if they come my way. Until then, I'll continue to look to the ones that can lead and aspire to be as strong as them.

 

[Fluffywolf]

1.90 years on fire would surely be difficult to withstand, but you are correct that it would be possible to overcome.

Placing that much importance on personal identity sounds foolish to me. It isn't worth all that pain. But in a way, it's admirable. If you can overcome pain, I suppose you can overcome anything.

In any case, I hope that you can make peace with this event before it comes to pass.

Why isn't it worth all that pain, if the alternative equals nothing?

Nada, zip, niantes!

To me it just seems worth it.

90 years of pain is something
death is nothing
Suppose I die in the first few seconds. I would be none the wiser
Every thought I had in those 90 years would be like a blessing to me.

I don't really expect you or anyone else to understand me though. I've always been a rather odd ball when it comes to death.