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  1. #821
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Pictures, products, people, stories from the living... Enough of a case to basically guarantee that it is there.
    All that is required for belief is the suspension of disbelief.

    And to suspend disbelief is the job of the synagogues, churches, mosques and temples.

    But plainly they have fallen down on the job because they became complaisant, they took belief for granted. And like a taken for granted wife, belief has sued for divorce.

    And who would believe it, but the clergy blame the disbelievers. For as we have seen in so many instances, the the clergy are the last to blame themselves.

    But if the centre cannot hold, mere disbelief is loosed upon the world.

  2. #822
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Lark- you have pictures of God? Do share!
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #823
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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  4. #824
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So it's egocentric for God to care about his own creation, particularly the one he made in his own image? I mean God can't have a relationship with mankind?
    I see no reason why God would care more for humanity than for anything else he created. For us to assume so is pure arrogance.

  5. #825
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I know, less difficult to believe it yet I've pretty much got the same evidence of God's existence and it can be more difficult to believe in, age we live in huh?
    You have pictures of God? This I want to see.

  6. #826
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Secular Humanism is piquing my interest these days. I still prefer for now to stay away from labels. I did join a free thinkers group online that is in our area but they're too busy bashing Christians and that's not what I'm about. I believe in free will and I'm not going to try and sway anyone from their beliefs.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  7. #827
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Beat, Ivy, open your eyes and look around.

  8. #828
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    It's just your perspective, Lark.
    It really just depends on whether you believe self-organization can spontaneously occur in nature. The greatest minds in human history continue to disagree on the matter, although I think we see more possibility nowadays for self-organization... or at least are more aware of minute processes that control a lot of what used to be labled as divine/supernatural.

    Anyway, other people look at the state of the world and can't believe in God, based on how crappy human beings treat each other. Meaning is always read into things by the observer. That's just what you're doing here.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #829
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's just your perspective, Lark.
    It really just depends on whether you believe self-organization can spontaneously occur in nature. The greatest minds in human history continue to disagree on the matter, although I think we see more possibility nowadays for self-organization... or at least are more aware of minute processes that control a lot of what used to be labled as divine/supernatural.

    Anyway, other people look at the state of the world and can't believe in God, based on how crappy human beings treat each other. Meaning is always read into things by the observer. That's just what you're doing here.
    Some might say.

    Yeah, people struggle. Others dont. Sometimes I do too.

  10. #830
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    I've been reading The Shorter Summa, which is an abbreviated version of the Summa Theologica (originally around 4000 pages, rivaling the Bible in length and substance) by Thomas Aquinas, and I'm enjoying the philosophical edge that Thomas uses. It's refreshing in comparison to the noisy rhetoric that contemporary thought's brimming with, though it requires a much more astute level of understanding logic. I think I'll probably have to reread it meticulously to have a fuller understanding of it all.

    Aquinas defines God, in a looser sense, as the greatest thing a person can think about. As such, God is self evident. Then, a rebuttal makes a transition from the "greatest thing" a person can think about to "infinite goodness". However, if a thing is infinitely good, then it would expunge all things bad. Clearly, there is the problem of evil.

    Then another rebuttal takes place that goes on about the Uncaused Cause, which is cogent as far as I can tell.

    I'm caught up on whether the greatest thing a person can think about is infinitely good. I think this presumes that thought itself is infinite. That's a toughy.

    In any case, I should probably keep reading.

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