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  1. #801
    Member Stol11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So it's egocentric for God to care about his own creation, particularly the one he made in his own image? I mean God can't have a relationship with mankind?
    Well considering the sheer scale and vastness of the universe, surely it is perverse that God can care only about this little speck amongst billions of stars and planets. All of the major faiths evolved before the workings of the universe were truly realised. Therefore a bronze age God could only be imagined with humanity solely in mind (as that is all that people knew to be true at the time). Humanity is lucky to be alive considering all of the collapsing stars and imploding galaxy's that God created in his universe, as well as a planet where 98% of all species that have ever existed have become extinct.

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stol11 View Post
    Well considering the sheer scale and vastness of the universe, surely it is perverse that God can care only about this little speck amongst billions of stars and planets.
    Considering the possible omnipotent nature of God, I don't see how that is necessarily so. Only from a materialist perspective does this make sense.

    All of the major faiths evolved before the workings of the universe were truly realised.
    True but metaphysics concerns itself with matter that is eternal and unchangeable, as defined by Aristotle. You'd be suprised to note how many scientific theories today have parallels or basis in ancient metaphysical or cosmological theories. The Bing Bang theory for example can be seen as a modern-day modification of the Stoic "fire" principle:
    In accord with this ontology, the Stoics, like the Epicureans, make God material. But while the Epicureans think the gods are too busy being blessed and happy to be bothered with the governance of the universe (Epicurus, Letter to Menoeceus 123–4), the Stoic God is immanent throughout the whole of creation and directs its development down to the smallest detail. God is identical with one of the two ungenerated and indestructible first principles (archai) of the universe. One principle is matter which they regard as utterly unqualified and inert. It is that which is acted upon. God is identified with an eternal reason (logos, Diog. Laert. 44B ) or intelligent designing fire (Aetius, 46A) which structures matter in accordance with Its plan. This plan is enacted time and time again, beginning from a state in which all is fire, through the generation of the elements, to the creation of the world we are familiar with, and eventually back to fire in a cycle of endless recurrence. The designing fire of the conflagration is likened to a sperm which contains the principles or stories of all the things which will subsequently develop (Aristocles in Eusebius, 46G). Under this guise, God is also called ‘fate.’ It is important to realise that the Stoic God does not craft its world in accordance with its plan from the outside, as the demiurge in Plato's Timaeus is described as doing. Rather, the history of the universe is determined by God's activity internal to it, shaping it with its differentiated characteristics. The biological conception of God as a kind of living heat or seed from which things grow seems to be fully intended. The further identification of God with pneuma or breath may have its origins in medical theories of the Hellenistic period. See Baltzly (2003).

    Stoicism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
    So I wouldn't cut the ancients short. Nietzsche was no friend of religion, but even he noted that while our descriptions of the world have become more complex(thanks in part to science), our explainations are still at the same level as in Plato's day.

  3. #803
    Member Will2911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manis View Post
    If only humanity had come up with the theory of evolution before inventing the written word. Or invented web forums before swords so they could sarcastically deconstruct each others' posts instead of killing each other.
    Probably would of caused more wars, etc. I mean it hardly created tolerance, infact it made racism and other similar ideas popular and fashionable again.

  4. #804
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    Smile The 98% Extinct and the Neanderthals

    Quote Originally Posted by Stol11 View Post
    Well considering the sheer scale and vastness of the universe, surely it is perverse that God can care only about this little speck amongst billions of stars and planets. All of the major faiths evolved before the workings of the universe were truly realised. Therefore a bronze age God could only be imagined with humanity solely in mind (as that is all that people knew to be true at the time). Humanity is lucky to be alive considering all of the collapsing stars and imploding galaxy's that God created in his universe, as well as a planet where 98% of all species that have ever existed have become extinct.
    I worry about the Neanderthals. They are mentioned nowhere in the Bible. But they must have stowed away on the Ark, for gene sequencing tells us they managed to pass some of their genes on.

    The Mormons for instance don't record any Neanderthal names in their book of life. And is seems even we don't know any Neanderthal names. And the Bible tells us our ancestry, but fails to mention the Neanderthals.

    Will the Neanderthals be able to forgive this oversight? Will the Neanderthals welcome us into heaven, or will they accuse us of making them non-persons? Or will they make the unforgivable assertion that we wiped them out? And will they mention the G word (Genocide)?

    Have you noticed there are no Neanderthal teddy bears? And although it is fashionable to claim a Sioux ancestor, no one traces their family tree back to the Neanderthals. What! Are we ashamed of the Neanderthals that we would obliterate the very mention of them from the Bible? And just as the Soviets airbrushed those out of favour, we have airbrushed the Neanderthals out of the Bible.

    What this must do to their psyches I don't know.

  5. #805
    Senior Member DJAchtundvierzig's Avatar
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    Christian here!

  6. #806
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    I should also mention that adherence to Holy Scriptures does not necessarily preclude an acceptance of scientific fact, as was outlined by St. Augustine of Hippo in the 5th century, whose position is nicely summarised here:
    [youtube="BR0qnfKAFYY"]Science vs religion?[/youtube]

  7. #807
    Member Manis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will2911 View Post
    Probably would of caused more wars, etc. I mean it hardly created tolerance, infact it made racism and other similar ideas popular and fashionable again.
    Yes I know you hate the internet, but think about how awesome a 'lolsabretooth' site would have been. Or were you talking about the theory of evolution

  8. #808
    Member Will2911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manis View Post
    Yes I know you hate the internet, but think about how awesome a 'lolsabretooth' site would have been. Or were you talking about the theory of evolution
    I don't hate the Internet. Well not entirely, I just think that the Internet has the potential to be one of the single most dangerous ideas in the history of the planet.

    The Internet has changed the world beyond recognition, it has made things like Child Pornogrophy easily acsesible. It has also lowered the barriers between nations, and has allowed things like facebook to destroy privacy.Crime has also evolved because of the web.

    I was in fact reffferimg to Evolution, which was at the time a cause of Racism becoming fashionable again. I mean in the early 19th century and the late 18th you had theabolishionist movement, and people in Western Europe we're moving more towards tolerance. Evolution meant that peoplehad an excuse to be racist, as people thought non whites were less evolved.

    In many ways the internet has reinforced that sort of attitude.

  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will2911 View Post
    I don't hate the Internet. Well not entirely, I just think that the Internet has the potential to be one of the single most dangerous ideas in the history of the planet.

    The Internet has changed the world beyond recognition, it has made things like Child Pornogrophy easily acsesible. It has also lowered the barriers between nations, and has allowed things like facebook to destroy privacy.Crime has also evolved because of the web.

    I was in fact reffferimg to Evolution, which was at the time a cause of Racism becoming fashionable again. I mean in the early 19th century and the late 18th you had theabolishionist movement, and people in Western Europe we're moving more towards tolerance. Evolution meant that peoplehad an excuse to be racist, as people thought non whites were less evolved.

    In many ways the internet has reinforced that sort of attitude.
    Platitudes concerning "progress" certainly is one major plague of modernity that's blinded men greatly.

  10. #810
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Platitudes concerning "progress" certainly is one major plague of modernity that's blinded men greatly.
    Peguy is always awesome in these kinds of threads.

    I need a dozen like him, then we can finally storm the Chateau where the SS are holding the hostages.

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