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  1. #701
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Follow nothing, reject nothing

  2. #702
    Senior Member mr.awesome's Avatar
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    cool quote from my brother, this was a few weeks ago and i obviously dont remember it word for word but it went along the lines of this..

    "Im agnostic. i dont think theres a guy up there pulling all the strings. i believe in karma. i do my best to be nice to people and to be a good person, and if there is a God and hes going to punish me for that i think thats stupid."

    pretty bluntly said haha, hes a very business-oriented man and for him to be pondering such things in conversation with me in the first place was kind of mind blowing cause he wasnt talking about his business :p
    there is a large kernel of truth behind what he said. I am a follower of jesus christ but being open minded here.. if you gotta have a philosophy on how to live your life i thought he has a good standpoint.
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  3. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    They're fictitious but still convey a moral truth. So whether Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, or the prodigal son really did squander his family inheritance is quite irrelevant. Not to mention there are distinctions between the historical books like Maccabees or Kings I&II(to give two examples) and say the Book of Job or Proverbs. It's been argued that the Bible as well as other ancient texts don't necessarily fall into modern categories of fiction or non-fiction; but might constitute an entirely different genre called "Faction".
    How would one interpreting the Bible this way regard a moral axiom within a parable? Like, let's say that the story of the Israelis (Children of Israel, not the Israeli Defense Forces) and Moses receiving the 10 commandments is a parable. But the 10 commandments themselves were meant to be morally imperative within the parable.

    Also, what happens when someone turns the parable inside out in a morally relativistic way? Like, let's say that Obama reads the story of King David sending a man into the vanguard of an army for the sole purpose of claiming the warrior's wife after the slaughter. Obama says "Damn, that's a good idea". (cuz it actually is a pretty rad idea). Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Or is the moral truth meant to be conveyed by theologians rather than a layman or a President?

  4. #704
    don't fence me in sui generis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.awesome View Post
    cool quote from my brother, this was a few weeks ago and i obviously dont remember it word for word but it went along the lines of this..

    "Im agnostic. i dont think theres a guy up there pulling all the strings. i believe in karma. i do my best to be nice to people and to be a good person, and if there is a God and hes going to punish me for that i think thats stupid."
    I agree with this.

    Do you know what type your brother is, out of curiosity?
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  5. #705
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    How would one interpreting the Bible this way regard a moral axiom within a parable? Like, let's say that the story of the Israelis (Children of Israel, not the Israeli Defense Forces) and Moses receiving the 10 commandments is a parable. But the 10 commandments themselves were meant to be morally imperative within the parable.

    Also, what happens when someone turns the parable inside out in a morally relativistic way? Like, let's say that Obama reads the story of King David sending a man into the vanguard of an army for the sole purpose of claiming the warrior's wife after the slaughter. Obama says "Damn, that's a good idea". (cuz it actually is a pretty rad idea). Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Or is the moral truth meant to be conveyed by theologians rather than a layman or a President?
    I like your line of questioning. Many people have trouble finding the figurative value in the Bible.

    The one distinction I would make is that the Bible stories generally identified as parables, namely the ones Jesus told like "The Prodigal Son", are usually regarded as fictitious. Like Aesop's fables, they illustrate a moral, but no claim is made as to their literal or historical truth. The stories of Moses and the ten commandments, or David and Uriah, however, are presented as historical truth, in addition to whatever moral or figurative value they contain. I tend to view such accounts as legend. There may be threads of historical truth in them, but it is the theme and broader plot arc that are important, much as in historical fiction.

  6. #706
    meat popsicle r.a's Avatar
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    i was raised catholic. i rejected it during early adolescence. some years at catholic school helped speed the process.

    subjective experience turned me towards occult studies during most of my 20's.

    i've rejected a lot of that too.

    buddhism resonates with me, but its hard for me to interpret the need for it to be a religion. its a way of being. thats how it should be, imo.

    i understand the need most people have for religion. i mean, we have so many other inherent tendencies, like our violent nature. it's something that comes with the package of being a human. since cavemen were clobberin cavewomen over the head and scribbling mastodons on walls, some form of religion has existed.

    to answer the original question, i don't believe in much of anything. the only thing that i am sure exists is the now we are experiencing together. and it is what it is.

    "All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is destructive and evil. Leaders destroy the followers and the followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
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    J.Krishnamurti

  7. #707
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    How would one interpreting the Bible this way regard a moral axiom within a parable? Like, let's say that the story of the Israelis (Children of Israel, not the Israeli Defense Forces) and Moses receiving the 10 commandments is a parable. But the 10 commandments themselves were meant to be morally imperative within the parable.

    Also, what happens when someone turns the parable inside out in a morally relativistic way? Like, let's say that Obama reads the story of King David sending a man into the vanguard of an army for the sole purpose of claiming the warrior's wife after the slaughter. Obama says "Damn, that's a good idea". (cuz it actually is a pretty rad idea). Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Or is the moral truth meant to be conveyed by theologians rather than a layman or a President?
    To be fair, cases like King David were considered wrong within the story itself. It's 5 AM here and I can't be bothered to look up the passages, but David's kingdom slowly split, and never reached an ideal. I would go so far as to say that the whole tale served as a model for later stories, like the downfall of Camelot/King Arthur. Besides, even before he became king, the prophet Samuel warned the people of Israel that they should have never wanted a king in the first place. There's probably no "parable" other than that.

    On the flipside, fast forward hundreds of years later, and you have the "Son of David", Jesus of Nazareth, say that the "Kingdom of God is within you." A complete shift away from politics.. but this is something that Old Testament may have been trying to suggest to begin with (like in Samuel's warning).

  8. #708
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Follow nothing, reject nothing
    Yeah, same. Not quite Atheist, although most closely Atheist technically. But without the rejecting part. Also not Agnostic, I don't believe that there could be something. I don't believe there is nothing. I just don't believe.

    It's more like being apathetic towards belief I suppose. It's just no issue so I don't need to believe in anything.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #709
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I like your line of questioning. Many people have trouble finding the figurative value in the Bible.

    The one distinction I would make is that the Bible stories generally identified as parables, namely the ones Jesus told like "The Prodigal Son", are usually regarded as fictitious. Like Aesop's fables, they illustrate a moral, but no claim is made as to their literal or historical truth. The stories of Moses and the ten commandments, or David and Uriah, however, are presented as historical truth, in addition to whatever moral or figurative value they contain. I tend to view such accounts as legend. There may be threads of historical truth in them, but it is the theme and broader plot arc that are important, much as in historical fiction.
    Good points, in the Gospels themselves Jesus explains his use of metaphor to the disciples when they misunderstand his parable of the sower.

    This is one of the reasons that apparent biblical/scriptural literalism in many of the schismatic Christian churches baffles me, when it is plain that God incarnate did not profess such a belief then why do his followers stick so adamently to it?

  10. #710
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Yeah, same. Not quite Atheist, although most closely Atheist technically. But without the rejecting part. Also not Agnostic, I don't believe that there could be something. I don't believe there is nothing. I just don't believe.

    It's more like being apathetic towards belief I suppose. It's just no issue so I don't need to believe in anything.
    Translation: Lazy Atheism.
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