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  1. #591
    Senior Member Loxias's Avatar
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    I guess I might be too accustomed to the idea of growth through confrontation, and it's not the first time I have noticed it being a liability. I guess part of the reasons for that are the way I have been educated (that is : strong parental criticism used to make me react in a better direction).
    You've got a point.
    But I don't believe that argument is a defence mechanism. It can bring great enlightenments and conclusions.

    Also, not everyone is ready to actively listen to any kind of self-expression. There is often a threshold of quality to be crossed for most people to listen to what one has to say.
    Does self-expression that no one wants to listen to enable us to grow as persons?
    And besides that, even if self-expression was always benefiting to the person that expresses themselves, sometimes it can be very unenjoyable to the rest of the people, if not downright hurtful. Self-expression without taking into account the possible impact of what is expressed is not something that I would approve of.
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  2. #592
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxias View Post
    I guess I might be too accustomed to the idea of growth through confrontation, and it's not the first time I have noticed it being a liability. I guess part of the reasons for that are the way I have been educated (that is : strong parental criticism used to make me react in a better direction).
    You've got a point.
    But I don't believe that argument is a defence mechanism. It can bring great enlightenments and conclusions.

    Also, not everyone is ready to actively listen to any kind of self-expression. There is often a threshold of quality to be crossed for most people to listen to what one has to say.
    Does self-expression that no one wants to listen to enable us to grow as persons?
    And besides that, even if self-expression was always benefiting to the person that expresses themselves, sometimes it can be very unenjoyable to the rest of the people, if not downright hurtful. Self-expression without taking into account the possible impact of what is expressed is not something that I would approve of.
    Yes, self expression and active listening are both disciplines that can be practised.

    And just as no one expects to become a Black Belt without practice, so we can't expect to achieve self expression and active listening without practice.

    And of course there is a place for debate in the world. And our Parliament, just up the road, is one such place.

    Your parents have taught you to criticize and to respond to criticizism. So now you can balance that by slowly learning self expression and active listening. And then think what a well rounded person you will be.

  3. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxias View Post
    No you wouldn't be ethnically Jewish. You would be a religious convert.

    To further the point, there are many Jewish who don't practice the Jewish religion. And there are a few non ethnic Jewish people who practice the Jewish religion (as converts), and who, if their convertion is halachically correct will be considered Jews by most (at least, that's how I understand it).
    As long as the conversion is done by an Orthodox rabbi, a convert is seen as fully Jewish, his past is irrelevant in that regard. Any children of the convert, if a woman, will be considered Jewish. Jewish identity is NOT related to race. It is about a covenant made with God (bringing the truth of God unto the goy (or nations), they are Chosen because they are to be a moral/spiritual light unto the nations). They are not an ethnic group, only a nation, or solely a religion... they are a People... this is a very complex subject, really... that's is the basic idea of it. The matter of being Jewish, while you can trace it genetically to certain groups of people, is ultimately a matter of the soul and spirit, not the body.

    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    But I haven't converted. Hypothetically she did. I would be matrilineally a Jew, by birth, despite being "ethnically" half Innuit?
    Again, yes, you would be considered a Jew, since there is not such thing as being "ethnically Jewish", but simply being Jewish. There are certain groups of Jews that are prevalent and reach back to even to Biblical times (Some in Africa and Yemen, etc) because that is were Judaism began with the Semitic people (descendants of Shem), but there are Jews of all ethnicity, especially because of diaspora... tying Judaism to race might lead you into dangerous territory...

  4. #594
    Senior Member Loxias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    As long as the conversion is done by an Orthodox rabbi, a convert is seen as fully Jewish, his past is irrelevant in that regard. Any children of the convert, if a woman, will be considered Jewish. Jewish identity is NOT related to race. It is about a covenant made with God. They are not an ethnic group, only a nation, or solely a religion... they are a People... this is a very complex subject, really... that's is the basic idea of it. The matter of being Jewish, while you can trace it genetically to certain groups of people, is ultimately a matter of the soul and spirit, not the body.
    This approach makes more sense to me. I guess I have misinterpreted what I percieved from the Jewish communities I have encountered.
    But still I wonder. Do you think a Jewish person will feel more affinity with an atheistic Jew than with an atheistic gentile?

    Also, would my father be considered Jewish or more Jewish than the average gentile, since his mother is born to a Jewish mother (true fact)? Considering that he has never been brought up in a Jewish tradition.
    NiFiTeSe
    4w5 so/sp
    I 77% E 23%
    N 85% S 15%
    T 51% F 49%
    J 60% P 40%
    average of many test results combined

  5. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxias View Post
    This approach makes more sense to me. I guess I have misinterpreted what I percieved from the Jewish communities I have encountered.
    But still I wonder. Do you think a Jewish person will feel more affinity with an atheistic Jew than with an atheistic gentile?

    Also, would my father be considered Jewish or more Jewish than the average gentile, since his mother is born to a Jewish mother (true fact)? Considering that he has never been brought up in a Jewish tradition.
    I respectfully disagree with the previous poster. Judaism is of course a religion, but Jews also constitute a culture with an "ethnic identity" not unlike say, the members of

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Shore_(TV_series)

    Secular Jewish culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #596
    Senior Member Daedalus's Avatar
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    Atheist Hindu

    ps:
    it goes without saying that i'm a secular humanist as well
    Extraverted - 25 Introverted - 75
    Sensing - 0 Intuition - 100
    Thinking - 63 Feeling - 37
    Judging - 63 Perceiving - 37
    ______________________________________


    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.

  7. #597
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Atheist, here. There is no God.

  8. #598
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Truth, love, beauty.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  9. #599
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Agnostic Atheist.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  10. #600
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    well I bet you all would never think you'd here the day when I'd tell you that..

    I am Agnostic..
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

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