• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

What's your religion?

wastrd

Permabanned
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
149
MBTI Type
INTP
Most N's aren't religious? That isn't true at all. Broad over-generalization. You may say that N's may not necessarily be as prone to follow extremely organized religion, but not that "most" aren't religious in any way, shape, or form.

There are quite a few religions out there.

he did say most, which is statistically true.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I'm a Christian of the more liberal, gnostic variety. Technically I'm a registered Methodist, and that's partially because I find their church to be more accepting of different types of people than others, while still following a form of worship that I feel comfortable with.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
he did say most, which is statistically true.

I want to see these statistics, then, not just of the people on this forum but of N's in general.

It seems mighty strange to be since several famous religious or spiritual leaders have been N's...
 

wastrd

Permabanned
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
149
MBTI Type
INTP
I want to see these statistics, then, not just of the people on this forum but of N's in general.

It seems mighty strange to be since several famous religious or spiritual leaders have been N's...

useless and I can't be bothered with it. Most Ns aren't religious, most SJs are.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Most N's aren't religious? That isn't true at all. Broad over-generalization. You may say that N's may not necessarily be as prone to follow extremely organized religion, but not that "most" aren't religious in any way, shape, or form.

There are quite a few religions out there.

Oh. I guess I meant that they're not followers of the organized Christianity. Mostly because I tend to forget that there's anything else that falls under the category of "religion."

The kind of religion you follow, that's more accepting of people of different types... that's a good example of how someone might try to hold onto parts of Christianity without embracing the entire oppressive, right-wing agenda of organized religion that most of it's followers embrace. I definitely respect that.

I just found it easier to decide religion probably wasn't for me, and that Christianity... well, I wasn't going to do anything that might indicate approval of their unfair right-wing agenda. Because I and several of my friends are people that would be personally affected by it if it came to pass.

It's really hard not to hate and fear Christians when I've observed their attempts to impose arbitrary right-wing values and morality on people via legislation. Live your own life the way you want, but don't tell me how to live mine... that was all I wanted, but they want to "compassionately" enforce compliance and punish noncompliance with their ideas. If they want to play that game, I don't have much choice but to undermine them wherever I can, because I can't abide that.

I suppose I'm not religious because to me, religion just seems like a tool of oppression, and it's going to take me a long time to ever open my mind enough to see it in any other light.
 

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
6,743
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx
So Athenian, care to intrigue me in explaining where a Christian like Cardinal John Henry Newman would fall within your categorizing of believers?

Athenian seems unwilling to ever post about actual people. Only theoretical, narrow categories of people that all think exactly alike and exist in his head.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
Athenian seems unwilling to ever post about actual people. Only theoretical, narrow categories of people that all think exactly alike and exist in his head.

Yeah really. Religions are not monoliths, and the variety one finds among religious people mirrors the variety found among people anywhere else.

I want to see these statistics, then, not just of the people on this forum but of N's in general.

It seems mighty strange to be since several famous religious or spiritual leaders have been N's...

Even if this claim is true, it still doesn't invalidate religious claims. It's more of an attempt to explain away religion rather than actually address its claims.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
So Athenian, care to intrigue me in explaining where a Christian like Cardinal John Henry Newman would fall within your categorizing of believers?

I don't think I'd consider him to be one of the Christians I'm looking for. He seems too open-minded and willing to change his mind about things, and even admits that without an internal conviction that not everyone has, it's quite reasonable for someone to be agnostic.

To be honest, I don't really know anything about Catholicism or other branches of Christianity. When I say "Christianity," I pretty much mean the Christians in the United States that are trying to impose their right-wing agenda on people like me, justifying their position only with quotes from the Bible. My fear and contempt for these particular people is the reason I go around saying how much I'm opposed to Christians. Looks like I need to define what I'm opposed to a little more precisely.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
I don't think I'd consider him to be one of the Christians I'm looking for. He seems too open-minded and willing to change his mind about things, and even admits that without an internal conviction that not everyone has, it's quite reasonable for someone to be agnostic.

He was also a staunch critic of Liberal Christianity and a defender of tradition, hence why he converted to Catholicism.

To be honest, I don't really know anything about Catholicism or other branches of Christianity. When I say "Christianity," I pretty much mean the Christians in the United States that are trying to impose their right-wing agenda on people like me, justifying their position only with quotes from the Bible.

Perhaps you should use more proper terminology here, and refer to this as American Evangelicalism; since Christianity is a major world religion with a billion adherents around the world - and the largest denomination of such being Catholicism.
 

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
6,743
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx
Perhaps you should use more proper terminology here, and refer to this as American Evangelicalism; since Christianity is a major world religion with a billion adherents around the world - and the largest denomination of such being Catholicism.

That's a good start. And then once we've gotten that shred of specificity, we can also talk about how American Evangelicals don't all hold the exact same views on all issues as well. Athenian, have you heard of Sojourners or Evangelicals for Human Rights? It's important to get to what the specific issue is and who the actual people involved are, otherwise you are just inventing categories for your own personal agenda, and are "imposing" it on people yourself, grossly misusing words such as "Christianity" to mean certain specific people taking specific actions that you disagree with.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
That's true Jeffster. And one also cannot really impose political categories of "Left" and "Right" unto religions either; even though they do intersect at times. Christianity and its teachings are 2000 years old; while the ideological categories of Left/Right date back only to the late 18th century. There's also a significant difference between the natures of religions and political ideologies.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
That's a good start. And then once we've gotten that shred of specificity, we can also talk about how American Evangelicals don't all hold the exact same views on all issues as well. Athenian, have you heard of Sojourners or Evangelicals for Human Rights? It's important to get to what the specific issue is and who the actual people involved are, otherwise you are just inventing categories for your own personal agenda, and are "imposing" it on people yourself, grossly misusing words such as "Christianity" to mean certain specific people taking specific actions that you disagree with.

Well, I'm actually a little embarrassed to say what the specific issue is... because it's probably not the most rational reason anyone ever rejected a religion. Most people have better justifications than me, honestly. I've always been ashamed to think about details in general, so I tend to protest against vague things to avoid having to admit to what my real problem is, because the more specific you get, the more likely people are to downplay your concern. If you keep it vague enough, they're more likely to find something in it and agree with you that there's a problem.

But the specific issues would be the people who want to create laws that would restrict the rights of homosexuals and transsexuals, outlaw abortion, and insist on traditional gender roles. The people who promote those things usually use the Bible to justify their stance, which presumably means Christianity promotes that stance. Finding myself aligned with several such people who don't want to be restricted by such laws and traditions... I just sort of reacted to the feeling of being oppressed by Christians, and decided to rally against them, fight back.

That's true Jeffster. And one also cannot really impose political categories of "Left" and "Right" unto religions either; even though they do intersect at times. Christianity and its teachings are 2000 years old; while the ideological categories of Left/Right date back only to the late 18th century. There's also a significant difference between the natures of religions and political ideologies.

There is a difference, but it's kind of hard to keep them as separate issues when people back up their ideology with a specific religion. My whole goal in attacking Christ-ahem, American Evangelicalism was to undermine the foundation of their ideology in order to help my coincidental allies weaken their position in the public view. Without the backing of the Bible (or the Bible coming to be considered disreputable and absurd), the chances of average people coming to accept/tolerate those who hold views like mine increases substantially, and thus the chances of laws being passed that invalidate our perspectives and choices are dramatically reduced.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
But the specific issues would be the people who want to create laws that would restrict the rights of homosexuals and transsexuals, outlaw abortion, and insist on traditional gender roles. The people who promote those things usually use the Bible to justify their stance, which presumably means Christianity promotes that stance. Finding myself aligned with several such people who don't want to be restricted by such laws and traditions... I just sort of reacted to the feeling of being oppressed by Christians, and decided to rally against them, fight back.

In all honesty, I don't see much of a point in rejecting Christianity just because of its teachings on homosexuality.


There is a difference, but it's kind of hard to keep them as separate issues when people back up their ideology with a specific religion. My whole goal in attacking Christ-ahem, American Evangelicalism was to undermine the foundation of their ideology in order to help my coincidental allies weaken their position in the public view. Without the backing of the Bible (or the Bible coming to be considered disreputable and absurd), the chances of average people coming to accept/tolerate those who hold views like mine increases substantially, and thus the chances of laws being passed that invalidate our perspectives and choices are dramatically reduced.

Quite honestly, your attempts at undermining the Bible and Christianity are rather weak. And this is further confirmed if your main purpose here is because of its teachings on homosexuality.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
When I say "Christianity," I pretty much mean the Christians in the United States that are trying to impose their right-wing agenda on people like me, justifying their position only with quotes from the Bible.
I wish this belief wasn't as common as it is. If only moderate Christians (ESPECIALLY Christians who accept evolution/science/homosexuality and who accept other religions) got more publicity. Non-Christians often don't even know that they exist. (Which is because they're quieter, and not as fiery.)

It's sad. It's like "I've seen horrible Christians on TV. Therefore, they're all bad, because they must ALL be like that. Because the Christians on TV MUST be a scientifically accurate survey of what Christians are like irl."

Now, on to answering the OP: I'm an Episcopalian. (Important side note: I'm left-wing!) Big, BIG difference from American Evangelicalism, for those who know about us. My mother is a combination of Episcopalian and Buddhist. I have friends of every religion. I don't try to convert anyone, because I believe that all religions are just different paths to the same goal. I was raised in a community of atheists, buddhists, pagans, wiccans, etc (mostly atheists), and they looked down on all Christians for that exact reason. I kept my religion to myself. To this day, I find my religion to be deeply personal, to the point that I only truly practice my religion when I'm alone. I only go to church for the music (I <3 Anglican church music), the people and the atmosphere.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
In all honesty, I don't see much of a point in rejecting Christianity just because of its teachings on homosexuality.

Quite honestly, your attempts at undermining the Bible and Christianity are rather weak. And this is further confirmed if your main purpose here is because of its teachings on homosexuality.

Well, which are you saying? That people:

A. Shouldn't reject Christianity as a whole if they choose to disagree with some of it's teachings?

B. That people should accept all of the teachings if they find most of them valid, regardless of their personal feelings?

And yes, I suppose it's homosexuality, other gender issues, and women's rights. Oh, and slavery.


I wish this belief wasn't as common as it is. If only moderate Christians (ESPECIALLY Christians who accept evolution/science/homosexuality and who accept other religions) got more publicity. Non-Christians often don't even know that they exist. (Which is because they're quieter, and not as fiery.)

It's sad. It's like "I've seen horrible Christians on TV. Therefore, they're all bad, because they must ALL be like that. Because the Christians on TV MUST be a scientifically accurate survey of what Christians are like irl."

I always thought I was kind of unique in that perspective. Are you telling me it's common?

I've always heard a lot of Christians say that such people don't count as Christians because they don't accept all of the teachings, and that they'd rather people just admit that they reject Christianity than pretend to be something they're not. So I did thusly. I'm not sure what to make of that...
Now, on to answering the OP: I'm an Episcopalian. (Important side note: I'm left-wing!) Big, BIG difference from American Evangelicalism, for those who know about us. My mother is a combination of Episcopalian and Buddhist. I have friends of every religion. I don't try to convert anyone, because I believe that all religions are just different paths to the same goal. I was raised in a community of atheists, buddhists, pagans, wiccans, etc (mostly atheists), and they looked down on all Christians for that exact reason. I kept my religion to myself. To this day, I find my religion to be deeply personal, to the point that I only truly practice my religion when I'm alone. I only go to church for the music (I <3 Anglican church music), the people and the atmosphere.

That is exactly what I believe, and it's the reason I'm an agnostic. I believe there's a higher being, and a spiritual aspect of the world, but I don't believe there's a single philosophy about it that's true and falsifies all the others. Because there's a lot of overlap, and the things that do overlap seem like the more significant ones. The things that don't seem less important and more like they might have been artifacts of the culture or writer's perspective.

Yeah... I've never heard of anyone going to church for the atmosphere. I've only heard of people going in order to show service to God, since that was supposedly the purpose. I'm kind of surprised anyone would think of it that way.
 
Top