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  1. #81
    Senior Member wyrdsister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    So in direct your refering to the maxim of the faith is fine it's just the faithful are idiots? Sounds about right for most religions IMO.

    I've found a few people who do seem to understand the forces at work in their religion, they're generally the intelligent ones, but yeah there are far too many who just sing along blindly. Mind you though, is that really a fault of the faith itself or is it more the failings of those who try to follow it?
    It becomes a problem when it is taken literally and not metaphorically and that all other religions apart from your own are *false*, instead of realising that all religions have some moral foundation even though based on personality cults, myths and legend.

    Myths and Legends can tell us a lot about how to live our lives. Doesn't make them *fact* though.

    As I said I'm asking why *in particular* we still need religion when we have a new story.

    The new story being that our universe is inflating, we are a part of the creative process and we want to *know* what our reality is.

    Perhaps we still need religion to answer the questions that science can't, like what is after death, but again it's not logical it's not fact it's just a story to tell yourself to make yourself feel better.

    What's wrong with saying *I don't know what comes after death but I sure as hell am going to make the best out of this life*???

    It's a more rational stance to take is it not?

    But then humans haven't got the best track record for being rational have we?
    Wyrd is a concept in Anglo-Saxon and Nordic culture roughly corresponding to fate. It is ancestral to Modern English weird, which has acquired a very different meaning.

  2. #82
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyrdsister View Post
    Indeed, now we know how the sun functions and its fusion reaction we now do not need the *story* of the pagan gods.

    As we now know almost for sure about evolution, we do not need the story of Adam and Eve.

    We need a new story, it's called science.
    Right, so we can work out the chapters and all, but we don't know who wrote it. The "why everything" that remains at the heart of most modern believers...?

    -Geoff

  3. #83
    Senior Member wyrdsister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Right, so we can work out the chapters and all, but we don't know who wrote it. The "why everything" that remains at the heart of most modern believers...?

    -Geoff
    Indeed but why do we need religion?

    This question is one that science is trying to explain, why can't we give it time instead of burying our heads in the sand?
    Wyrd is a concept in Anglo-Saxon and Nordic culture roughly corresponding to fate. It is ancestral to Modern English weird, which has acquired a very different meaning.

  4. #84
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyrdsister View Post
    It becomes a problem when it is taken literally and not metaphorically and that all other religions apart from your own are *false*, instead of realising that all religions have some moral foundation even though based on personality cults, myths and legend.

    Myths and Legends can tell us a lot about how to live our lives. Doesn't make them *fact* though.

    As I said I'm asking why *in particular* we still need religion when we have a new story.

    The new story being that our universe is inflating, we are a part of the creative process and we want to *know* what our reality is.

    Perhaps we still need religion to answer the questions that science can't, like what is after death, but again it's not logical it's not fact it's just a story to tell yourself to make yourself feel better.

    What's wrong with saying *I don't know what comes after death but I sure as hell am going to make the best out of this life*???

    It's a more rational stance to take is it not?

    But then humans haven't got the best track record for being rational have we?
    With this whole universe expanding theory your sounding dangerously like replacing one religion with another. Both have their myths and legends. Both are prone to be being taken too literally and thought of as facts.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #85
    Senior Member wyrdsister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    With this whole universe expanding theory your sounding dangerously like replacing one religion with another. Both have their myths and legends. Both are prone to be being taken too literally and thought of as facts.
    Nope falsifyability.. remember?
    Wyrd is a concept in Anglo-Saxon and Nordic culture roughly corresponding to fate. It is ancestral to Modern English weird, which has acquired a very different meaning.

  6. #86
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyrdsister View Post
    Nope falsifyability.. remember?
    Nope. Not the bookish sort.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #87
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyrdsister View Post
    Indeed but why do we need religion?

    This question is one that science is trying to explain, why can't we give it time instead of burying our heads in the sand?
    I suppose ultimately it depends upon whether one wants to, or can accept a scientific answer. Or even if one believes a scientific answer can even be possible for such questions.

    I'm inclined to think it can, but many aren't.

    Edit : Also.. perhaps.. humanity requires uncertainty, the spark of unknown, the faerie stories, the religions to keep us from humdrum certainty which would surely kill us.

    -Geoff

  8. #88
    Senior Member wyrdsister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I suppose ultimately it depends upon whether one wants to, or can accept a scientific answer. Or even if one believes a scientific answer can even be possible for such questions.

    I'm inclined to think it can, but many aren't.

    Edit : Also.. perhaps.. humanity requires uncertainty, the spark of unknown, the faerie stories, the religions to keep us from humdrum certainty which would surely kill us.

    -Geoff
    But the only certain thing is uncertainty!
    Wyrd is a concept in Anglo-Saxon and Nordic culture roughly corresponding to fate. It is ancestral to Modern English weird, which has acquired a very different meaning.

  9. #89
    Junior Member LordPwnage's Avatar
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    1. To control people
    2. To rationalize altruism
    I don't over-analyze simple concepts, you over-simplify complex ones.

  10. #90
    Member Camelopardalis's Avatar
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    Perhaps we still need religion to answer the questions that science can't, like what is after death, but again it's not logical it's not fact it's just a story to tell yourself to make yourself feel better.
    Indeed it makes you feel better to know that you have some answers, but for me personally, even though I know that science would not provide these answers, it would be foolish of me to believe in an answer provided by an equally unqualified person (here I'm talking about priests and legends) who knows in reality nothing more than you and I. Maybe it's just me, but I'd feel better not having the answer than having the wrong one.
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