Religion... why?

[The Cat]

Disney adults
Friday Night Lights lifestyle
The Creativity Movement....oh wait that's an actual white supremacist group. The other two are just cultish and life sucking brainwashing but no one is condemning them or stopping anyone from participating.

How is this a thing???? One of the worst movies to ever get a tvshow, and now its a bleeding life style??? Literally the only good thing to come from that movie was getting to Chris "Captain America's Ass" Evans in a whipped cream bikini banana split in not another teen movie. THE. ONLY. GOOD. THING.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

In our age of scientific discovery I would like to pose the question...

Why is religion still relevant in out time?

Obviously in past centuries it was a form of mind control and personality cults. Myths and legends to explain our Earth and the Universe and why we were here and to be good people or we shall rot in hell or be reborn as amoebas... but now in the year 2007, why is religion still relevant?

Because we still have the little problem called ageing and death. Most of people still can't live without a cope.

 

[LightSun]

It is said that religion is like a tree. Its roots lie in darkness, while its leaves wave in the sun. You can prune away its branches, even cut the tree to the ground, but it will grow again, ever stronger. Such is the nature of religion, and why it is so difficult to destroy.

I. Top 7 most peaceful religions in the world.
1. Buddhism (Buddha)
2. Hinduism (Krishna)
3. Christianity (Jesus)
4. Islam (Mohammed)
5. Taoism (Lao Tzu)
6. Jainism (Mahavira)
7. Judaism (Moses)

II. Top 10 most religious country in the world.
1. Israel
2. Saudi Arabia
3. India
4. Pakistan
5. Iran
6. Bangladesh
7. Sri Lanka
8. Indonesia
9. Afghanistan
10. Thailand

III. Top 6 countries with the least freedom of religion.
1. Myanmar
2. China
3. Iran
4. North Korea
5. Saudi Arabia
6. Sudan

IV. Top 10 countries that are losing religion (atheism).
1. China 97%
2. Japan 81%
3. Vietnam 67%
4. Germany 66%
5. South Korea 65%
6. Israel 61%
7. Slovenia 59%
8. Austria 59%
9. France 55%
10. Iceland 54%

 

[ygolo]

I. Top 7 most peaceful religions in the world.
1. Buddhism (Buddha)
2. Hinduism (Krishna)
3. Christianity (Jesus)
4. Islam (Mohammed)
5. Taoism (Lao Tzu)
6. Jainism (Mahavira)
7. Judaism (Moses)

II. Top 10 most religious country in the world.
1. Israel
2. Saudi Arabia
3. India
4. Pakistan
5. Iran
6. Bangladesh
7. Sri Lanka
8. Indonesia
9. Afghanistan
10. Thailand

III. Top 6 countries with the least freedom of religion.
1. Myanmar
2. China
3. Iran
4. North Korea
5. Saudi Arabia
6. Sudan

IV. Top 10 countries that are losing religion (atheism).
1. China 97%
2. Japan 81%
3. Vietnam 67%
4. Germany 66%
5. South Korea 65%
6. Israel 61%
7. Slovenia 59%
8. Austria 59%
9. France 55%
10. Iceland 54%

May I ask where you got these ratings?

Also, as to why (for me):
1) Connection to ancient culture and its practices.
2) Connection to community and roots.
3) Feeling of spiritual oneness with everything.

False reasons (that actually bug me about certain aspects of my religion):
1) Superstitious practices to gain favors
2) Explanatory power
3) What would people think if I wasn't?

 

[MPP]

In our age of scientific discovery I would like to pose the question...

Why is religion still relevant in out time?

Obviously in past centuries it was a form of mind control and personality cults. Myths and legends to explain our Earth and the Universe and why we were here and to be good people or we shall rot in hell or be reborn as amoebas... but now in the year 2007, why is religion still relevant?

People generally speaking are not rational or logical, even if you are. Most people are led around by their desires, fears, and emotions. Religion can also provide a sense of meaning and morality to some people. Also, it promotes families staying together, this is connected to inequality and social stability. Without culture, most are simply controlled by their instincts.

 

[ceecee]

People generally speaking are not rational or logical, even if you are. Most people are led around by their desires, fears, and emotions. Religion can also provide a sense of meaning and morality to some people. Also, it promotes families staying together, this is connected to inequality and social stability. Without culture, most are simply controlled by their instincts.

Or make them less rational and less logical, more reactionary and unable to control their emotions, more vulnerable to idol worship and conspiracy. And you don't need to go far to find this.

 

[MPP]

Or make them less rational and less logical, more reactionary and unable to control their emotions, more vulnerable to idol worship and conspiracy. And you don't need to go far to find this.

Well, that's a theory, one that seems to put less importance on biological differences. I'm seeing more and more evidence and studies that show that personality differences are more due to biology, and less on culture.

Also, a lack of Christianity in western countries is leading to fewer families staying together. In the social sciences this is one of the strongest correlations connecting to more unstable societies.

To be clear, I'm not religious, only considering the possibility that there might not be a simple answer.

 

[ceecee]

Well, that's a theory, one that seems to put less importance on biological differences. I'm seeing more and more evidence and studies that show that personality differences are more due to biology, and less on culture.

Also, a lack of Christianity in western countries is leading to fewer families staying together. In the social sciences this is one of the strongest correlations connecting to more unstable societies.

To be clear, I'm not religious, only considering the possibility that there might not be a simple answer.

Religion is cultural. Most of your posts advocate for Christianity or Christian cultural norms, yet you claim to not be religious. Of course that would provide the control that would produce a "stable" society via suppression of things like women, children, all other religious freedoms, while claiming biology is actually the force deciding all this - not some morality police caving in your skull.

 

[MPP]

Religion is cultural. Most of your posts advocate for Christianity or Christian cultural norms, yet you claim to not be religious. Of course that would provide the control that would produce a "stable" society via suppression of things like women, children, all other religious freedoms, while claiming biology is actually the force deciding all this - not some morality police caving in your skull.

Religion is not the only part of culture. What is culture is any form of social programming.
Christianity is used because I live in a western country, and society is becoming more unequal, and more unstable.
Yes, religions can be massively oppressive and limiting, and I don't like that aspect. However, that doesn't mean that there are not any good aspects to them. To say religion is all bad, with no consideration of the good aspects is too simple an answer.
The Soviet Union was considered none religious, yet how many people died because of it, tens of millions. You are looking for an easy target to blame, the problem is human ignorance and arrogance, with or without religion.

 

[ceecee]

Religion is not the only part of culture. What is culture is any form of social programming.
Christianity is used because I live in a western country, and society is becoming more unequal, and more unstable.
Yes, religions can be massively oppressive and limiting, and I don't like that aspect. However, that doesn't mean that there are not any good aspects to them. To say religion is all bad, with no consideration of the good aspects is too simple an answer.
The Soviet Union was considered none religious, yet how many people died because of it, tens of millions. You are looking for an easy target to blame, the problem is human ignorance and arrogance, with or without religion.

Sounds like something Charles Murray might say (or a couple of our former members). Right down to the anti-communism. Millions died in Russia because it was ruled by dictators and totalitarian governments, same as the oligarchy via dictator they currently have under "capitalism". US Cold War propaganda seems to be losing it's grip for most people and that's progress.

The least religious societies are going away the best places to live with the lowest inequality as resources are spread more evenly. That isn't socialism or even communism. It's simply a willingness for governments to invest in their people. Better educations, longer lives, better health, stronger families.

You can mourn the death of organized religion and good riddance. But people will still maintain spirituality and perhaps embrace earlier beliefs that are more in line with their lifestyles and needs. Fortunately there is no money in it for western religious leaders, no children to molest, less gullible people to take advantage of.

 

[Coriolis]

Sounds like something Charles Murray might say (or a couple of our former members). Right down to the anti-communism. Millions died in Russia because it was ruled by dictators and totalitarian governments, same as the oligarchy via dictator they currently have under "capitalism". US Cold War propaganda seems to be losing it's grip for most people and that's progress.

The least religious societies are going away the best places to live with the lowest inequality as resources are spread more evenly. That isn't socialism or even communism. It's simply a willingness for governments to invest in their people. Better educations, longer lives, better health, stronger families.

You can mourn the death of organized religion and good riddance. But people will still maintain spirituality and perhaps embrace earlier beliefs that are more in line with their lifestyles and needs. Fortunately there is no money in it for western religious leaders, no children to molest, less gullible people to take advantage of.

The distinction between religion and spirituality is critical. The human tendency to see or seek seek something greater than ourselves won't go away, but we may realize it is better satisfied on a personal vs. institutional level. To paraphrase the Charge of the Goddess: if you don't find what you seek within yourself, you will never find it without.

 

[MPP]

Sounds like something Charles Murray might say (or a couple of our former members). Right down to the anti-communism. Millions died in Russia because it was ruled by dictators and totalitarian governments, same as the oligarchy via dictator they currently have under "capitalism". US Cold War propaganda seems to be losing it's grip for most people and that's progress.

The least religious societies are going away the best places to live with the lowest inequality as resources are spread more evenly. That isn't socialism or even communism. It's simply a willingness for governments to invest in their people. Better educations, longer lives, better health, stronger families.

You can mourn the death of organized religion and good riddance. But people will still maintain spirituality and perhaps embrace earlier beliefs that are more in line with their lifestyles and needs. Fortunately there is no money in it for western religious leaders, no children to molest, less gullible people to take advantage of.

I think you have an idealistic and naïve view of human nature. Extremists are always absolute in their views on complicated subjects, just like the totalitarian leaders and dictators.

 

[MPP]

Something else I wanted to add to this, for all those who demonise religion.

The fault with demonizing religion is that you are not going deep enough to find the root cause. Religion was created by people, and it wasn't like it was just a fluke, or freak occurrence. There are many religions all over the world, in every corner of the globe. So, the problem at the root is human psychology. With no religion, people will still be irrational and tribal, and they will just look for ideologies to become brain washed with to give them a sense of meaning.

One possible solution, understanding ourselves better, developments in modern psychology becoming more mainstream.

 

[Earl Grey]

Something else I wanted to add to this, for all those who demonise religion.

The fault with demonizing religion is that you are not going deep enough to find the root cause. Religion was created by people, and it wasn't like it was just a fluke, or freak occurrence. There are many religions all over the world, in every corner of the globe. So, the problem at the root is human psychology. With no religion, people will still be irrational and tribal, and they will just look for ideologies to become brain washed with to give them a sense of meaning.

One possible solution, understanding ourselves better, developments in modern psychology becoming more mainstream.

It makes it sound like "don't outlaw this drug, people will find other drugs to get addicted to anyway!"
It also is a feeble defense that backfires on itself since it implies that Religion is bad. "There are worse things, but everyone's going to pick something that's going to make them sick anyway, so it's not like our product is a problem!"

It misses the point that having it exist at all just gives more avenues for the bolded to happen, and that just because people might be irrational, tribal, and brainwashed enough to pick up something else, it doesn't change the fact that each 'ideological brainwash' are all uniquely harmful in their own ways. "You'll die either way so what does it matter if I shoot you in the head, poison you, or break your legs?"

They're not interchangeable. They are unique enough that they can overlap in different ways. But if you're getting poisoned and shot in the head both, your chances of survival get very, very bleak.

A huge part of the unique problem that Religion brings is how, no matter how you cut it, it's indoctrination. Your feelings don't matter, your thoughts don't matter, you get it shoved down your gullet as fact and you're not allowed to question it- and from a horrifically young age. If this was anything else we'd be calling it grooming, which is a crime. The power imbalances inherent in it can be toxified to the point of severe harm and younger folks (children) and women are the ones getting uniquely disadvantaged here in a way other brainwashings might not even do.

Go tell a kid she's going to be tortured for wearing a crop top and she's just a piece of meat to be aged and ripened for a husband and you'd be a twisted creep. But that's just what a lot of toxified religion is doing. And unlike MLMs or cults that is widely demonised for what it is, religion (and especially so in the past) does not have that 'social check' that can save and prevent people from them. If you're turning Atheist you're still gonna get shat on for it but if you escaped an MLM people would be telling you good riddance. It's full of fear tactics and outdated systems that aren't allowed to be questioned, and are inherently unhealthy.

I'm not even someone who would demonise religion. But I heavily dislike its approach and I do believe that it stunts people. The risk is too high, the benefits too low. The middle ground is to let people choose in their adulthood, but "religious people", especially the nutty ones, are never going to do that.

 

[Earl Grey]

The horrible twisted irony of Christianity advocating "pureness" yet by nature of how it is taught allows the horrible, disgusting sexualisation of women and children to just fly by doesn't escape me. Cover up so uncle Ben won't ogle you, you wh*re!

The number of mothers and fathers that have been brainwashed such that they'd rather let the other men in their life gaze and predate on THEIR DAUGHTER lustfully while BLAMING HER for it is revolting.

Y'all, my man Jesus straight up told you to pluck your own eyes out if you start looking too much. Pick up the Bible for real, for once, and maybe people won't be ragging on you so much. But cherrypick whatever suits you best now wouldn't you?

 

[Coriolis]

Something else I wanted to add to this, for all those who demonise religion.

The fault with demonizing religion is that you are not going deep enough to find the root cause. Religion was created by people, and it wasn't like it was just a fluke, or freak occurrence. There are many religions all over the world, in every corner of the globe. So, the problem at the root is human psychology. With no religion, people will still be irrational and tribal, and they will just look for ideologies to become brain washed with to give them a sense of meaning.

One possible solution, understanding ourselves better, developments in modern psychology becoming more mainstream.

Yes, the root cause is indeed human nature. Unlike other human institutions, however, religion's reach is all-encompassing, covering body, mind, heart, and soul, even into the afterlife. As such it is an especially powerful tool in the hands of demagogues and predators of all kinds. Compare someone launching a missile strike on your house vs. trying to punch you in the face.

It is not surprising that humans try to institutionalize and regulate spirituality. We do it with everything else. Perhaps it gives us a feeling of control, especially over something that seems - and is - quite out of our control. That doesn't make it good, however. Much as autocratic rule has been giving way to more democratic forms of governance, our spiritual lives would better be left to more decentralized, almost grassroots-like structures that are more responsive and transparent. There will still be bad apples, but their reach will be much more limited, and opportunities for exposing and sanctioning them more available.

As @Arcturus observes, "religions of the book" are especially rife with abuses, or perhaps they are simply more obvious to someone raised in western society. While some believers readily reinterpret these writings for the modern age, others insist on slavish adherance to the literal meaning. Yes, truly following what Jesus taught would address many of these issues. Following the likes of Paul or Peter, however, gives us just a kinder, gentler oppression; and reaching back to the Old Testament for guidance fuels scenarios like the Handmaid's Tale.

 

[Tomb1]

Something else I wanted to add to this, for all those who demonise religion.

The fault with demonizing religion is that you are not going deep enough to find the root cause. Religion was created by people, and it wasn't like it was just a fluke, or freak occurrence. There are many religions all over the world, in every corner of the globe. So, the problem at the root is human psychology. With no religion, people will still be irrational and tribal, and they will just look for ideologies to become brain washed with to give them a sense of meaning.

One possible solution, understanding ourselves better, developments in modern psychology becoming more mainstream.

The irrational and tribal psychology defense of atrocities and oppressions committed in the name of religion is a new one.

 

[MPP]

It makes it sound like "don't outlaw this drug, people will find other drugs to get addicted to anyway!"
It also is a feeble defense that backfires on itself since it implies that Religion is bad. "There are worse things, but everyone's going to pick something that's going to make them sick

Acknowledging the existence of something is not necessarily to defend it. People are just looking for simple answers and targets, just like some demonise capitalism. Of course religion can be bad, but most people don't understand why it was created in the first place. Even if it's more bad than good, it's still just a symptom of something deeper.

 

[MPP]

The irrational and tribal psychology defense of atrocities and oppressions committed in the name of religion is a new one.

Again, acknowledging the existence of something is not defending something. I acknowledge the existence of inequality, and that it happens naturally, that doesn't mean I defend it.

 

[Earl Grey]

Acknowledging the existence of something is not necessarily to defend it. People are just looking for simple answers and targets, just like some demonise capitalism. Of course religion can be bad, but most people don't understand why it was created in the first place. Even if it's more bad than good, it's still just a symptom of something deeper.

I am countering the holes in what you are calling your acknowledgement, then, since your acknowledgement is quite simplistic and not thought-through.

You called demonising religion a fault. I explained how and why it isn't as big as a fault as you think it might be. You are favouring not demonising religion due to factors that are quite flimsy. Certain things deserve to be demonised, and whatever it is modern Christianity has twisted itself into is one of them, as well as Muslim Jihadists, and even a couple of sects of Buddhism that are veering into the nutty end.

With how they are, the only way to fight demons is to call it what it is. Some sects of these religions have no excuse existing in the modern world. That is not at all a "simple answer" and if anything, religion is painting itself as a target. To move and improve upon it, we must first understand and call it out for what it is; a behemoth of a modern demon inflicted on society. Saying we shouldn't just because people will find another thing to get slavish about is a poor man's excuse.