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  1. #101
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The problem for atheists is to explain why there has been no civilization not based on a religion.
    Atheism was the official state belief in the former Soviet Union. That is a society that did not work out so well.
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  2. #102
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is true from a logical point of view. But it is a complete failure to explain why no civilization is not based on a religion.
    It also fails to explain why my brilliant son can't remember where he left his shoes, but then again that wasn't its purpose to begin with.

  3. #103
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Atheism was the official state belief in the former Soviet Union. That is a society that did not work out so well.
    I would venture a guess that the Communist Party deliberately tried to substitute communist philosophy in place of religion, at least among the professional class. So while atheism may have been the official state belief, it's not exactly true to call the Soviet state areligious.

  4. #104
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    It also fails to explain why my brilliant son can't remember where he left his shoes, but then again that wasn't its purpose to begin with.
    He can't find his shoes, silly, because he doesn't look in the last place he left them.

    That'll be 5 cents. Next question, please!

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I would venture a guess that the Communist Party deliberately tried to substitute communist philosophy in place of religion, at least among the professional class. So while atheism may have been the official state belief, it's not exactly true to call the Soviet state areligious.
    nice clarification.

    Although that leads me to ask: What sort of philosophy / way of life would be an alternative to religion, without simply acting as one in religion's place?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #105
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    Although that leads me to ask: What sort of philosophy / way of life would be an alternative to religion, without simply acting as one in religion's place?
    I think that the closest point in wich humanity come to ateistic society is European union. For the first time in history you have a place where you have huge number of atheist and no one is directly forcing them to be atheists.
    They will even defend their atheism if that is what it takes.

  6. #106
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    Why no civilization was atheist: because most civilizations were founded when most of the people believed in an invisible man, and their kids did because the adults in their community made them to do so, and that process repeated itself.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  7. #107
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I would venture a guess that the Communist Party deliberately tried to substitute communist philosophy in place of religion, at least among the professional class. So while atheism may have been the official state belief, it's not exactly true to call the Soviet state areligious.
    Yes but we have an analog to that in the US. Soviets were very nationalistic and idealize communism. Americans are very nationalistic and idealize democracy. Political ideals may bare some resemblence to religion, but they really aren't the same thing. So far what we know of atheistic societies is that they don't work very well, although we do only have a small sample to draw from.
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  8. #108
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Atheism was the official state belief in the former Soviet Union. That is a society that did not work out so well.
    We just have a simple misunderstanding.

    A society is not a civilization.

    For instance, Russian society, and for a while Soviet Society, is part of Western Civilization.

    And the religion of Western Civilization is Christianity, just as the religion of Mother Russia is Russian Orthodox Christianity.

    It is merely sleight of hand to describe Mother Russia as atheist. And just a propaganda argument put up by theists.

    The point is that the argument between theists and atheists is a logical trap.

    And when you are in trap the only important thing is to get out.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I think that the closest point in wich humanity come to ateistic society is European union. For the first time in history you have a place where you have huge number of atheist and no one is directly forcing them to be atheists.
    They will even defend their atheism if that is what it takes.
    How odd.

    Western Civilization takes its very name from, "Western Europe".

    And the religion of Western Civilization is Christianity.

    And the very birthplace of Christianity is Western Europe.

    To say that Western Europe is atheist is merely the special pleading of atheists. It is the propaganda of atheists.

  10. #110
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    And curioser and curioser.

    Both theists and atheists defend their positions even though both will admit they can prove nothing.

    And odder and odder, even though they can't establish their positions, they identify with them.

    So they defend them in the same way you defend you identity whether it is American or Islamic, whether you are straight or gay or even whether you like Rock or Classical.

    We are completely reluctant to dissociate from our identity because that leaves us disorientated and vulnerable.

    So we cling to theism or atheism for safety.

    In exactly the same way we cling to MBTI even though is has the same truth value as astrology.

    And interestingly MBTI is defended in exactly the same way as theists and atheists defend their identity.

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