Why Prayer is a SIN and affront to God

[nozflubber]

They aren't "my" propositions - they are the ones assumed by the majority of theists when discussing the topic of God and prayer. It's ok that you can't justify the behavior, though, cuz you don't have to.

And it's insulting to me that you think I'm "up in arms" about religion. This is about sinning, not taking a shit on christians or other religious persons.

 

[Oberon]

They aren't "my" propositions - they are the ones assumed by the majority of theists when discussing the topic of God and prayer.

You must know different theists than I do.

 

[nozflubber]

These 3 (not the rest of my OP):

- God exists and prescribes a world for you that you are to deal with, one way or another.

- God has given you the intellectual tools of reason and faith.

- You are to rely on the tools God has given you rather than "special treatment" from God.

 

[Anja]

They aren't "my" propositions - they are the ones assumed by the majority of theists when discussing the topic of God and prayer. It's ok that you can't justify the behavior, though, cuz you don't have to.

And it's insulting to me that you think I'm "up in arms" about religion. This is about sinning, not taking a shit on christians or other religious persons.

Not you too! Practicing the finely honed art and hobby of so many folks. Insulted by the drop of a statement. Real life must be tough. Imagine you must be insulted many times a day unless you stay home.

I don't see anywhere where I said you were "up in arms" about religion. Reading into a statement that you could have asked a question about before jumping to conclusions. Would have saved you at least one "insult" for your busy day. (It's also an intelligent approach to civil conversation.)

Dang! Now I'm insulted. Shall we fight for the amusement of all?

 

[Tiny Army]

I was always taught that since God is a part of all living things, the greatest form of prayer was kindness. Prayer was my way of communicating with my own subconscious (because based on what the Imams at the temples I went to said, this was where God resided) and mentally preparing myself for challenges, since I was told that prayer is meant to give you the strength to change your own life, not that God would fix shit if you prayed hard enough.

I was never taught to believe in Hell or sin and was actually pretty appalled when I discovered that this was a large part of mainstream Islam.

 

[Oberon]

I was always taught that since God is a part of all living things, the greatest form of prayer was kindness. Prayer was my way of communicating with my own subconscious (because based on what the Imams at the temples I went to said, this was where God resided)...

This sounds to me like Sufism of one flavor or another... but I really know next to nothing about the branches of Islam.

 

[Tiltyred]

That's very beautiful and, I believe, can also be very Christian. Kindness is prayer in action. "If you love me, feed my sheep," etc.

 

[Tiny Army]

Man, we Sufis also mostly believe that all religions are based in the same thing. It's all the same cosmic force, anyway. Call it God or the chemicals in your brain, they're all part of the same thing.


This is what happens when hippies homeschool their kids. Everything becomes very vague.

 

[nozflubber]

I was always taught that since God is a part of all living things, the greatest form of prayer was kindness. Prayer was my way of communicating with my own subconscious (because based on what the Imams at the temples I went to said, this was where God resided) and mentally preparing myself for challenges, since I was told that prayer is meant to give you the strength to change your own life, not that God would fix shit if you prayed hard enough.

This is the wise approach. What happened to the notion of being humble before the Glory of God? What happened to infinite grace?

Do you know what infinite existence of God means? It's frikkin' crazy beans, man. It means this is from God:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRVi0paZlfI&feature=related"]God presents his will to thee[/YOUTUBE]

Anything and everything in this world is God, basically, right? Why pray for change? I still don't see why you would do these things

 

[Tiny Army]

Because praying helps me access the part of myself that can strive for change.

I was taught that Destiny was like a choose your own adventure book. God is the guy who wrote the book, he knows what happens when you jump to page 38 but it is ultimately the reader's choice to do so. But this is a choose your own adventure book with infinite possibilities. Which means there are infinite possibilities within myself.

Seeing as all I have is power over myself, I pray for the strength to use that power and change myself for the better.

I'm not sure where humility before God comes in here. I am humbled by all the factors I cannot control...? I'm not sure what kind of prayer you are talking about here. Could you maybe give me your exact definition of prayer and I can explain how I feel about that?

 

[Nadir]

Very simply: you're talking out of your ass here. Your God can decide for Himself whether it's an insult or not, and does not need your half-baked advocacy.

 

[pure_sterling]

I believe in a relational God, one that desires interaction with each of us. There are many types of prayer, as I think someone already mentioned, but essentialy prayer is part of a relationship with God, a back and forth conversation.

 

[Mole]

I believe in a relational God, one that desires interaction with each of us. There are many types of prayer, as I think someone already mentioned, but essentialy prayer is part of a relationship with God, a back and forth conversation.

If you talk to God, you are sane.

But if God talks back, you are schizophrenic.

 

[Mole]

If you talk to God, you are sane.

But if God talks back, you are schizophrenic.

But before the breakdown of the bicameral mind, God did talk to us.

In fact the whole of society was based on the heard word of God.

But on the breakdown of the bicameral mind, God fell silent.

And the only remnants we have left of those bicameral times is schizophrenia.

And sadly, the heard word of God has been replaced by an ideology. An ideology that tells us of a personal relationship with God and interprets the scriptures literally.

 

[pure_sterling]

That’s a really overused jab. Why would I want to talk to God if he didn't talk (read communicate) back? Praying to someone who doesn't answer in some way is redundant.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

nozflubber, I have a question.

What you seem to be saying is that given your assumptions, God made you the way you are and gave you the situation the way it is, and there's no reason to fight it because fighting it is contradicting his will. (Something like that.)

But for the person who already prays, wouldn't changing that prayer be a sort of affront to God, too? Couldn't you argue, based on your logic, that God gave him whatever deficits he has and whatever ignorance he has? If so, how is stopping prayer any less of an affront to God's divine assignment for him?

 

[Mole]

Why would I want to talk to God if he didn't talk (read communicate) back? Praying to someone who doesn't answer in some way is redundant.

I presume that God does not literally speak to you, that is, you are not literally hearing the voice of God.

So, of course, I am presuming you are not hearing voices and so are not schizophrenic.

But you do say that God communicates with you.

I presume you have no record of this and so you can't show your communication from God to anyone else.

And so it is impossible to falsify your communication from God.

So it is no surprise to find you are attracted to MBTI which, oddly enough, also can't be falsified.

So we are starting to see a pattern here. You tell us you receive communications from God which can't be seen by anyone else, and that by intuition alone, you can tell your personality and the personality of others.

This all seems rather imaginary to me.

But perhaps your imagination might be better employed in poetry or art rather than talking to God and following MBTI.

 

[Rangler]

Victor.. we get that you don't believe in God. Some do, some don't. I just can't imagine what makes you the least bit credible on this topic. If you don't like prayer, don't pray..... and mind your own small life.

 

[Mole]

Victor.. we get that you don't believe in God. Some do, some don't. I just can't imagine what makes you the least bit credible on this topic. If you don't like prayer, don't pray..... and mind your own small life.

Of course I believe in God.

There has never been a civilization not based on a religion.

And the religion on which my civilization is based is Christianity.

And I am a sacramental Christian.

And it sounds to me you are a sectarian Christian.

To which sect do you belong?

 

[Rangler]

To which sect do you belong?

None.