Darwin would be ashamed

[Costrin]

Much of right and wrong comes from "good of community". Survival of the fittest community kinda thing, so... you might be able to find right and wrong in almost objective manner.

A common agreed upon subjective right and wrong. For all practical purposes it might as well be an objective truth, but it isn't.

 

[01011010]

Whoever or whatever benefits you is right. That's all you can really use to judge. Of course, there isn't really a wrong or right in the objective sense anyway.

That is correct, good sir. Yet, I will still worship at the altar of lord Einstein and science, because it has tangible roots. It can be proven. Consistently.

 

[Willfrey]

(And of course, I'm sure I'll have to state that evolution does not explain the origin of life, and doesn't... we are still trying to build life from inorganic materials... and while we are close that, it's not biological yet. We can only build biological machines... the whole reproduction thing is trickier. Wait a few years and that'll be different.)

I wish I could work on a project like this, peeping through a microscope into a petri dish, laughing mechanically... "ITS ALIIIIIVE!"

 

[Sniffles]

How about trying to apply science to teaching science?

Alright then, but let's also get scrap the erronous philosophy of scientism in order to achieve that.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Alright then, but let's also get scrap the erronous philosophy of scientism in order to achieve that.

Philosophy of scientism?

 

[nolla]

You claimed that religion has no place in education because it teaches to honor people who killed others. So Im asking if you consistently believe in this when it comes to the men who fought to defend your country, since they killed others. Should they, or should they not be honored in your view?

If you don't choose to attack anyone, there is no blame. This was true for the russian soldiers also. Comparing this to a situation where individuals choose to attack another individuals belonging to a certain group is quite far fetched.

 

[Sniffles]

The philosophical precept that science is the ultimate source of all truth.

 

[nolla]

A common agreed upon subjective right and wrong. For all practical purposes it might as well be an objective truth, but it isn't.

Good enough for me. It is so much closer than religions.

 

[Sniffles]

If you don't choose to attack anyone, there is no blame. This was true for the russian soldiers also.

So Finnish soldiers deserve to be honored, despite having killed others, yes or no. It's a simple question.

Comparing this to a situation where individuals choose to attack another individuals belonging to a certain group is quite far fetched.

Actually no it isn't. In fact on many levels it's very similar if not the same thing. You're hair-splitting here.

 

[01011010]

Empirical Evidence vs Fiction: Round 1

 

[ygolo]

I'm a little confused

So for those who don't believe in evolution, which part of the theory do you disbelieve?

1) That generations of life have variation.
2) That the environment culls which part of life survives to create the next generation

Note, many scientists, ans religious people have stated that evolution and religion can co-exist.

 

[nolla]

So Finnish soldiers deserve to be honored, despite having killed others, yes or no. It's a simple question.

Well, I guess it is more yes than no.

So, you answer this: Is a crusade honorable?

 

[Sniffles]

Well, I guess it is more yes than no.

So, you answer this: Is a crusade honorable?

Yes it is, considering that the Crusades were a response to Islamic assaults upon Christian lands over the past centuries. Even the Albigensian Crusade was largely a response to the Cathars assasinating Papal officials.

 

[Sniffles]

Empirical Evidence vs Fiction: Round 1

You do know that the man who developed the Periodic Table was an Orthodox Christian?

 

[nolla]

Yes it is, considering that the Crusades were a response to Islamic assaults upon Christian lands over the past centuries. Even the Albigensian Crusade was largely a response to the Cathars assasinating Papal officials.

I meant crusade as a way of getting rid of the other religions.

 

[Costrin]

You do know that the man who developed the Periodic Table was an Orthodox Christian?

That's relevant how?

Yes it is, considering that the Crusades were a response to Islamic assaults upon Christian lands over the past centuries. Even the Albigensian Crusade was largely a response to the Cathars assasinating Papal officials.

If you don't choose to attack anyone, there is no blame. This was true for the russian soldiers also. Comparing this to a situation where individuals choose to attack another individuals belonging to a certain group is quite far fetched.

So basically, you are both using self-defense to justify killing? How far does this extend? Are you limited to just stopping the immediate threat? Repelling completely the aggressors? Attacking the aggressors to make the point not to attack you in the future? Completely killing off the aggressors, and all related to them so that they are incapable of ever doing it again?

Talking country level here, but maybe you think it isn't applicable at country level, and only at individual level, or vice versa, or some other weird possibility, I don't even know.

 

[Sniffles]

I meant crusade as a way of getting rid of the other religions.

Well I agree with St. Thomas Aquinas that it's inappropriate to force unbelievers to convert, since that means violating their free will before God.

 

[01011010]

You do know that the man who developed the Periodic Table was an Orthodox Christian?

It doesn't change religion being mythology. Nor did I ever deny that a religious person could also believe in science. That doesn't mean all scientists or more fact appreciative people, will accept fiction as truth.

 

[nolla]

So basically, you are both using self-defense to justify killing? How far does this extend? Are you limited to just stopping the immediate threat? Repelling completely the aggressors? Attacking the aggressors to make the point not to attack you in the future? Completely killing off the aggressors, and all related to them so that they are incapable of ever doing it again?

That isn't really the point. He just wanted to twist the issue so that religious hatred would seem like the same thing as defending your life.

 

[Sniffles]

That's relevant how?

It's highly ironic to posit a contrast between the Periodic Table and Christianity, when its own developer believed in Christianity. Kinda like how the first astronomer to develop the Big Bang theory was a Catholic priest.

So goes to further show that the ditchomy between religion and science is a false one.