Darwin would be ashamed

[CrystalViolet]

Dog breeds. Evolution before the eyes of our generations, under our control.

Yes, but some what forced, and some what negated by the heavy hand of human manipulation.
A better example is the evolution of antibiotic resistant bacteria.

 

[Didums]

that's not a strawman

My bad, it's this:

Inconsistent comparison: where different methods of comparison are used, leaving one with a false inpression of the whole comparison

Dropping a wrench on a foot to demonstrate gravity is not a valid comparison to evolution.

 

[Sniffles]

Why? Don't you think education should be based on the theories that are most likely true?

You're confusing several factors here. Scientific theories cannot provide basic moral and ethical foundations, which are properly dealt with by religion and philosophy. And a proper education in any true sense of the term involves moral and ethical foundations, which teach one how to be a proper person.

 

[nolla]

I didn't say anything about proof, I said demonstrate.

Oh... ok. I see what you mean now...

Oh, and I'd love to hear your other explanations for how the wrench goes down. It's been a long time since science class, so I'm a little rusty.

I didn't actually mean any "real" scientific explanations. I meant that if we choose not to believe in some theories and replace them with some other less likely ideas, then we can make anything seem logical from the viewpoint we have chosen to take. The wrench may go down because god wants it go down. God might pull invisible strings that take things down and if he chooses, he will make everything go up... I haven't seen anything to point that this is absolutely impossible, so if I wish to believe in it, I can...

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Darwin would be ashamed

Darwin probably wouldn't care. I read in an article today that Darwin's findings weren't considered terribly interesting the year he presented them. He also waited several years to release his findings, because he was worried about how they'd be received.

I don't believe in Gravity.

Well it doesn't behave quite like the other three fundamental forces. It may be that gravity doesn't exist. After all no graviton has been discovered.

 

[01011010]

I don't know what the heck you guys are on about but I have to go feed the dragon in my garage.

Pssshhh... Unless you have a unicorn as well, I'm going to have to report you to big brother.

 

[Sniffles]

The Jewish Existentialist Lev Shestov made an insightful remark on the issue:

"If one had proven to the Apostle with all the required evidence, like "two times two makes four," that man is descended from the ape, neither proofs nor evidence would have convinced him. He would perhaps have repeated Dostoevsky's words, "but what does it matter to me?" Probably, however, he would have recalled the Bible: "...as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee." In other words, if you believe that you are of God, you are of God; if you believe that you come from an ape, you come from an ape: "the righteous shall live by faith.""

Lev Shestov - Athens and Jerusalem - Part III,8

So which way do you choose?

 

[01011010]

The Jewish Existentialist Lev Shestov made an insightful remark on the issue:

Everyone knows religious people are righteous.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Yes, but some what forced, and some what negated by the heavy hand of human manipulation.
A better example is the evolution of antibiotic resistant bacteria.

Yes, but, if a person isn't being deliberately resistant to the possibility of evolution (but then, who doubts that isn't?) than the dog breeds are good enough.

They already prove, beyond a doubt, that the entire biological process is possible. Once we know that it can physically happen, it's not hard to imagne how natural patterns can form.

Seriously people, if you can't believe in naturally developed patterns, than the entire world is made of magic. It hardly stops with lifeforms.

 

[wolfy]

According to Gallup 44% of people don't know what theory Darwin is associated with.

 

[nolla]

You're confusing several factors here. Scientific theories cannot provide basic moral and ethical foundations, which are properly dealt with by religion and philosophy. And a proper education in any true sense of the term involves moral and ethical foundations, which teach one how to be a proper person.

Morals are not something that have to be educated by religion. Religions do this, yes, and it is mainly ok, but then again, the reason religions shouldn't do this is because their morals are outdated and often cause more evil than good. Religions should be parted from the moral education and the education should be based on the values of today's world. There is good stuff, it just has to be filtered out from the nonsense.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

The Jewish Existentialist Lev Shestov made an insightful remark on the issue:

*quote*

So which way do you choose?

I choose the concept of objective truth, and say that you are not whatever you choose to be.

 

[Quinlan]

You're confusing several factors here. Scientific theories cannot provide basic moral and ethical foundations, which are properly dealt with by religion and philosophy. And a proper education in any true sense of the term involves moral and ethical foundations, which teach one how to be a proper person.

Fixed.

 

[Sniffles]

Morals are not something that have to be educated by religion. Religions do this, yes, and it is mainly ok, but then again, the reason religions shouldn't do this is because their morals are outdated and often cause more evil than good. Religions should be parted from the moral education and the education should be based on the values of today's world. There is good stuff, it just has to be filtered out from the nonsense.

Truth does not have an expiration date. If your argument is correct, then that means your ideas will become obsolete within a few generations anyways, which begs the question why somebody should adhere to it now.

 

[nolla]

So which way do you choose?

I'm quite ok being an ape.

Fixed.

Yeah, that's what I should have done in my earlier reply... smart chimp...

 

[01011010]

Seriously people, if you can't believe in naturally developed patterns, than the entire world is made of magic. It hardly stops with lifeforms.

The whole world is magic. Just believe. Like kittens and rainbows. Awww

 

[Jeffster]

Dropping a wrench on a foot to demonstrate gravity is not a valid comparison to evolution.

Absolutely. Which was my point. Saying you don't believe in gravity has no relation to the poll you posted.

Oh... ok. I see what you mean now...



I didn't actually mean any "real" scientific explanations. I meant that if we choose not to believe in some theories and replace them with some other less likely ideas, then we can make anything seem logical from the viewpoint we have chosen to take. The wrench may go down because god wants it go down. God might pull invisible strings that take things down and if he chooses, he will make everything go up... I haven't seen anything to point that this is absolutely impossible, so if I wish to believe in it, I can...

Totally understandable. And I agree with you. Personally, I don't spend time trying to limit people's freedom to believe what they wish.

Seriously people, if you can't believe in naturally developed patterns, than the entire world is made of magic. It hardly stops with lifeforms.

I am pretty sure that I believe in naturally developed patterns, but I wholeheartedly believe that the entire world is made of magic.

 

[Didums]

The whole world is magic. Just believe. Like kittens and rainbows. Awww

 

[Didums]

Absolutely. Which was my point. Saying you don't believe in gravity has no relation to the poll you posted.

They are both Scientific Theories. I was refering to your method of verification.

 

[Sniffles]

I choose the concept of objective truth, and say that you are not whatever you choose to be.

Ahhh spoken like a true NT. In actuality, truth is subjectivity. Very often what you believe does determine much about you.

Fixed. Miscontrued

Fixed.