For the Torah, Qur'an, and Bible tells me so

Kiddo · Dec 24, 2008

SolitaryWalker · Dec 24, 2008

Welcome back, most esteemed sir!

Extremely thought-provoking topic. Scintillating!

I have not looked at those videos yet, but there is no doubt in my mind that they shall cause an ethical paradigm shift!

Kiddo · Dec 24, 2008

SolitaryWalker said:
Welcome back, most esteemed sir!

Extremely thought-provoking topic. Scintillating!

I have not looked at those videos yet, but there is no doubt in my mind that they shall cause an ethical paradigm shift!

Thank you.

I especially can't wait to hear your thoughts on the topic.

kendoiwan · Dec 24, 2008

The bible is a book written and edited by men with agendas... I care not what the bible tells me outside of just having the perspective...

JocktheMotie · Dec 24, 2008

I watched the intro and it seems like an awesome film. Definitely give it a watch. Today is a bit busy though... but I will post my thoughts.

SolitaryWalker · Dec 24, 2008

Kiddo said:
Thank you.

I especially can't wait to hear your thoughts on the topic.

Well, those remarks were sarcastic. I will watch those videos. From a personal perspective this is very interesting to me, as religion has a profound impact on the lives of many in the Western Culture. Yet, intellectually, this is not very interesting.

The definition of religion is a worldview that propounds a cosmological view( how the world works), ethical perspective (what we should do in our lives) and eschatological (matters of life after death), as well as regards at least the central maxims as incontrovertible. The last aspect (acceptances of propositions as incontrovertible) is what demarcates religion from philosophy.

On that note, blind obedience to authority is the most notable aspect of religiosity. The psychological and the sociological reasons why people accept religion are very simple. Namely, most people struggle to think for themselves and therefore do not understand how to live, or what kind of a worldview they should endorse. Such a lack of knowledge is uncomfortable to them.

They find religion to be compelling because it solves all of the problems above, it tells them exactly how to live and what to think of the world. Their religious teaching insists that all of the issued commands must be obeyed without question. Hence, because they think that the Bible exhorts them to condemn homosexuals, they do so accordingly.

The question to follow is, does the Bible or does it not explicitly condemn homosexuals? It likely does both. There were many authors many of which held beliefs that were incompatible with other authors of the Bible. Moreover, many of the authors of the Bible were not philosophers or learned men, hence they lacked the ability to think cleary and to express their thoughts clearly. Thus many of the statements they have with regard to homosexuality were in themselves incoherent and were expressed in an ambiguous way. On that note, it is not at all surprising that there is myriad of different kinds of religious zealots who purport that their actions are justified by the Bible. On that note, it is also not surprising that many adherents of the Bible assert that their actions are justified by the book of dogma.

Kiddo said:
I especially can't wait to hear your thoughts on the topic.

I have expressed more of my thoughts here,

---------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, the topic is not intellectually challenging. It is merely about stupid people doing stupid things. Yet, I am glad that you posted it anyways. The topic has the potential to discuss ethical issues that are of deep concern to many of us.

Kiddo said:
I especially can't wait to hear your thoughts on the topic.

I have expressed more of my thoughts here, Poverty of Conventionalism

Whilst religion in itself is not intellectually stimulating, philosophy of religion may be. In this book, I was concerned chiefly with the endeavor of philosophy of religion. Philosophy of religion is intellectually interesting because it is concerned with doing exactly what religions have failed to. Establishing a coherent worldview (in relation to cosmology, ethics and eschatology). However the chief difference between a philosophical approach to this endeavor and a religious is that the former does not regard any proposition as incontrovertible, whilst the latter clearly does.

Totenkindly · Dec 24, 2008

SolitaryWalker said:
Well, those remarks were sarcastic.

Yeah, I laughed when they were taken seriously. Poor kiddo.

(I mean, there is no way you could be THAT jovial for REAL.

)

I will watch those videos. From a personal perspective this is very interesting to me blah blah blah blah BLAH blah blah blah <five more pages of blah>

Why not watch the videos first, to ensure that the commentary fits what the OP hopes to discuss? (regardless of whether or not I happen to agree with your assessment of religious thought on the homosexuality topic... although actually which I do, quite a bit)

Never fear, there'll be other opportunities to tout and sell your book, rest assured, once real discussion commences.

ThatsWhatHeSaid · Dec 24, 2008

Really, SolitaryWalker? I think it's extremely thought-provoking.

Kiddo · Dec 24, 2008

SolitaryWalker said:
Well, those remarks were sarcastic.

Ah, I figured we had long buried the hatchet.

I will watch those videos. From a personal perspective this is very interesting to me, as religion has a profound impact on the lives of many in the Western Culture. Yet, intellectually, this is not very interesting.

Thank you.

The definition of religion is a worldview that propounds a cosmological view( how the world works), ethical perspective (what we should do in our lives) and eschatological (matters of life after death), as well as regards at least the central maxims as incontrovertible. The last aspect (acceptances of propositions as incontrovertible) is what demarcates religion from philosophy.

On that note, blind obedience to authority is the most notable aspect of religiosity. The psychological and the sociological reasons why people accept religion are very simple. Namely, most people struggle to think for themselves and therefore do not understand how to live, or what kind of a worldview they should endorse. Such a lack of knowledge is uncomfortable to them.

They find religion to be compelling because it solves all of the problems above, it tells them exactly how to live and what to think of the world. Their religious teaching insists that all of the issued commands must be obeyed without question. Hence, because they think that the Bible exhorts them to condemn homosexuals, they do so accordingly.

The question to follow is, does the Bible or does it not explicitly condemn homosexuals? It likely does both. There were many authors many of which held beliefs that were incompatible with other authors of the Bible. Moreover, many of the authors of the Bible were not philosophers or learned men, hence they lacked the ability to think cleary and to express their thoughts clearly. Thus many of the statements they have with regard to homosexuality were in themselves incoherent and were expressed in an ambiguous way. On that note, it is not at all surprising that there is myriad of different kinds of religious zealots who purport that their actions are justified by the Bible. On that note, it is also not surprising that many adherents of the Bible assert that their actions are justified by the book of dogma.

I have expressed more of my thoughts here,

---------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, the topic is not intellectually challenging. It is merely about stupid people doing stupid things. Yet, I am glad that you posted it anyways. The topic has the potential to discuss ethical issues that are of deep concern to many of us.

I have expressed more of my thoughts here, Poverty of Conventionalism

Whilst religion in itself is not intellectually stimulating, philosophy of religion may be. In this book, I was concerned chiefly with the endeavor of philosophy of religion. Philosophy of religion is intellectually interesting because it is concerned with doing exactly what religions have failed to. Establishing a coherent worldview (in relation to cosmology, ethics and eschatology). However the chief difference between a philosophical approach to this endeavor and a religious is that the former does not regard any proposition as incontrovertible, whilst the latter clearly does.

Interesting insight as always.

I will also try to post more intellectually stimulating topics in the future.

Kiddo · Dec 24, 2008

Jennifer said:
Yeah, I laughed when they were taken seriously. Poor kiddo.

I really did.

Why not watch the videos first, to ensure that the commentary fits what the OP hopes to discuss? (regardless of whether or not I happen to agree with your assessment of religious thought on the homosexuality topic... although actually which I do, quite a bit)

I agree. I think it would be best if people try to hold off on commenting until they do see the video.

And it doesn't have to be watched all at once folks.

01011010 · Dec 24, 2008

Interesting excerpt:

If you’re going to quote the whole Sodom and Gomorrah story from the Bible, think about it first. Do you really want to base your entire argument on that particular piece? When my daughter was three-years-old, we watched the end of one of those old Bible movies, and the end was the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. My little girl turned to me with big eyes, and said, "Is God a monster, Mommy?" I said, "Of course, not." "Then why did he do that to all those people?" To that, I had no good reply, so I went out searching for Bible scholars, who would surely have a better take on the events than I did. What I found was that this story has puzzled Bible scholars for centuries, and that they don’t really have a good explanation either. Lot, the only "good" man in the whole city, offers his virgin daughters to the male mob to be gang raped so he can save his Angelic visitors. I know that protecting your guests is very important in the culture, but that seems a little extreme. Do you really want to base your judgment on the story of a man who offers his daughters up for rape, and after escaping, with the help of Angels, from the doomed city, has sex with those same daughters, himself? Is this really the religious example you want to stand behind? I mean, if you’re against male homosexuality, as Lot was, are you also for rape of women and incest? Of course, not. But why is one attitude more outrageous than the other?

One of the most poignant guest speakers I ever heard in Church was a guest pastor. He was from a wealthy parish, or had been, and he told us a story. A story of young girl, who was exhibiting signs of serious depression. He talked to her, and came to find out, that she was being sexually abused by her father and her brother. The father had convinced her that the Bible said it was all right for a father to have sex with his daughter. One of the stories he used to pressure his child into sex was Lot’s story. When the guest pastor finished speaking, the silence in the church was thunderous. We all sat there, stunned. Stunned at the evil of it. Stunned that a book that had so much good in it, could be used for such wicked purpose. I’ve never forgotten that moment. It was the moment when I began to put serious thought into how I read the Bible, and how other people might read it.

I'm halfway through the video.

kendoiwan · Dec 24, 2008

01011010 said:
Interesting quote:

I'm halfway through the video.

Oh wow... I think I'm going to have me a look :huh:

nightning · Dec 24, 2008

Kiddo said:
I agree. I think it would be best if people try to hold off on commenting until they do see the video.

And it doesn't have to be watched all at once folks.

I watched the first 10 minutes or so... and I got fed up. Fed up with bigotry, fed up with the bible. For the religious folks here, forgive me if I offend, but I cannot see how the bible can be words from god (providing that god exists in the first place). Let's assume god does exists, and he directed the prophets to write the bible. In this case, the bible is STILL a translation. Subjected to biases by the writer. To read the bible (assuming it is truth) literally is foolishness. A ton of things changed in the world.

You should not eat uncooked meat... all meat should be well-done. How many religious people do that? Eat their steaks well-done? That's also stated in the bible. Yet people don't follow it. Clearly people are picking and choosing to follow what they like. Righteous hypocrisy is still hypocrisy no matter how you disguise it.

I must say I like the intro song though... Well placed irony "God loves me... for the bible tells me so."

01011010 · Dec 24, 2008

nightning said:
I watched the first 10 minutes or so... and I got fed up. Fed up with bigotry, fed up with the bible. For the religious folks here, forgive me if I offend, but I cannot see how the bible can be words from god (providing that god exists in the first place). Let's assume god does exists, and he directed the prophets to write the bible. In this case, the bible is STILL a translation. Subjected to biases by the writer. To read the bible (assuming it is truth) literally is foolishness. A ton of things changed in the world.

The reform sect of Judaism believes there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Reform Jews make up about 45% of Jews in America. The Tanakh is basically selected parts of the Bible they believe in.

I know at least 5 (actively practicing) Jewish lesbians. Not all religions are as represented in the video.

Sniffles · Dec 24, 2008

Wow, barely three minutes into it, and I'm already Godwined and given all the other typical analogies to racism, sexism, slavery, etc.

ajblaise · Dec 24, 2008

01011010 said:
The reform sect of Judaism believes there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Reform Jews make up about 45% of Jews in America. The Tanakh is basically selected parts of the Bible they believe in.

I know at least 5 (actively practicing) Jewish lesbians. Not all religions are as represented in the video.

And there are plenty of Catholics who see nothing wrong with it.

My prediction is that the majority of the followers of the major religions are going to have such a liberal interpretation of their religion in 100 or so years that a lot of the negatives we associate with religion will have become very much lessened, but not dormant.

scantilyclad · Dec 24, 2008

Thank you for posting this Kiddo! I am always disgusted by the prejudice that a lot of religious people have for homosexuals and i am even more disgusted by the fact that they commonly misuse the bible to support this prejudice. What this video taught me is that some people often need to have a gay son or daughter to learn to be accepting and to truly educate themselves. This is sad to me.

I'm very ashamed to say that i live in a family full of homophobic people and i am constantly bashed for accepting and embracing homosexuality. My mom once actually asked me to not let my son be around my gay friends, because it might make him gay. I'm more concerned that my son will become a decent human being, who accepts people for who they are.

Thank you again for posting this.

01011010 · Dec 24, 2008

ajblaise said:
And there are plenty of Catholics who see nothing wrong with it.

My prediction is that the majority of the followers of the major religions are going to have such a liberal interpretation of their religion in 100 or so years that a lot of the negatives we associate with religion will have become very much lessened, but not dormant.

Reform Judaism doesn't even include homosexuality being wrong in their rules and regulations.

Yet, regardless of religious texts in most religions claiming it's a "sin", I hope people do see that certain aesthetic guidelines no longer serve the public good. As your prediction states.

kendoiwan · Dec 24, 2008

The whole concept of sin is hilarious to me. Like someone is really keeping score how many times I spank my monkey a day? When I die, I've GOT to meet the guy keeping score of that information. Wonder if there are MBTI types in hell?

Sniffles · Dec 24, 2008

kendoiwan said:
The whole concept of sin is hilarious to me. Like someone is really keeping score how many times I spank my monkey a day? When I die, I've GOT to meet the guy keeping score of that information. Wonder if there are MBTI types in hell?

God is watching everything you do
When you get undressed or take a shower
When you touch yourself for hour after hour
God is watching everything you do
And He thinks you're a nasty, naughty nympho slut!
You sinful filthy whore you're going to hell!
Your flesh will burn, your bones will churn
Your soul will be torn asunder
You wretched heathen heretic, burn in hell
For eternity!
So you better remember!
God is watching everything you do!

For the Torah, Qur'an, and Bible tells me so

Furry Critter with Claws

Tenured roisterer

Furry Critter with Claws

I am Sofa King!!!

Habitual Fi LineStepper

Tenured roisterer

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@

Well-known member

Furry Critter with Claws

Furry Critter with Claws

New member

I am Sofa King!!!

ish red no longer *sad*

New member

Sniffles

Guest

Minister of Propagandhi

almost nekkid

New member

I am Sofa King!!!

Sniffles

Guest

Similar threads

@.~virinaĉo~.@

ish red no longer sad