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The founder of Italian Communism had deathbed conversion

Ezion

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I think this is a sad way of thinking. Refute it all as false and oppose it.. but then when you realize that your way of thinking doesn't totally provide you with the comfort you need at the end, you take it all back? You're essentially preaching to the world something that not every fiber of your being believes in. Infact, enough of you doesn't believe it to revert back to the very thing you preach against. Essentially, you lie to everyone.

If you're atheist, that's your call. It's just sad to see people SO opposed to something that they can't open their mind long enough to realize they wanted it all along.

I won't cover the specifics, but your post is very presumpuous. The last paragraph also smacks a little of "more righteous than thou." Do you consider yourself more righteous than all non-Christians? (Note: While you havn't explicitly said you're Christian, I'm assuming you are.)

Also, OP, what was the point of presenting us with this article? You've implied some sort of discussion material but have yet to come out and say it.
 

Edgar

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If I converted on my deathbed to catholicism, (my) God would send me to hell for being weak in the face of death and despair,

When I die and go before my god, he will ask me, "What is the riddle of steel?" If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me. That's Crom, strong on his mountain!
 

Virtual ghost

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The founder of Italian Communism had deathbed conversion -Times Online


Well may he rest with Christ.

This was quite common in the 20th century and still is today, when conversions to Catholicism was/is quite common among many influential intellectual and literary figures. This is true even after years of harsh opposition to the faith.

So for all the atheists here, there's still hope for you! :D


I am watching this post and for some reason I think that I am one of the main targets of of the comment in the end.

I would not say you are right and I will explain my claim.


The thing is that I refuse to believe in things that are foundations of spirituality.
The thing is that I think that purpose is something that is man made and does not exist in reality. Because of this there is no need to start looking for truth in methaphysical. I don't think there is actually a problem that needs to be solved. I think that humanity is too limited to understand and/or to see reality as it really is.


I am sure that I will not change my mind because I am not interested at all into things that religion (such as Christianity) has to offer me.
For me heaven and hell are exactly the same. People find this funny but that is what I think. If I have to chose between Heaven ,Hell and real death I would chose real death at any time. Since living for a eternity leads to so much problems that I think it is not worth it.
It is totally irrelevant if God exists or not if there is no afterlife.
Not to mention that determinism in this world is destroying all standards which are needed to judge peoples actions as good or evil.


Personally I think that mankinds destiny is to become extinct and I don't see it as a problem. That is because I am not living in fear as many on this world.
I think that entire religion and spirituality are nothing more then a fear managment and control of fears. (or joy)


Why would I need/want God to love me? I never loved anyone in that way and to tell you the truth I don't know what I would do with his love.



As for that guy.
If that makes you happy enjoy.
For me, in this kinds of things he is irrelevant. Which is because he is a just a communist. His "job" is purely earthy, when you attack him with teological argumants his position falls appart.
Also your side can provide all things he actually seeks in life. What he understood in the end.


If I attack him with a mix of hard science and some logical arguments his position will also fall apart.
Both of this scenarios are possible because he is not big picture thinker, he is just a person with his political belifs.
For me communism is flawed in a very similar way as religion. Which is because both place man and his needs in the centre of their philosophy.
 

Moiety

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I think this is a sad way of thinking. Refute it all as false and oppose it.. but then when you realize that your way of thinking doesn't totally provide you with the comfort you need at the end, you take it all back? You're essentially preaching to the world something that not every fiber of your being believes in. Infact, enough of you doesn't believe it to revert back to the very thing you preach against. Essentially, you lie to everyone.


I can sympathize with the idea that when you're about to die you don't care about this world anymore. Your own selfish desires command you more than ever. That includes selfless acts - ultimately they serve to soothe your conscience.

I hate hypocrisy, but if I was about to die and for some reason thought it likelier that God existed at that time, I'd do the same.

Only I think that is very very unlikely to happen to me.
 

Valiant

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Looks like the brain partially died before the rest of the body :D
 

FDG

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Another idiotic topic by Peguy.
 

wildcat

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The founder of Italian Communism had deathbed conversion -Times Online


Well may he rest with Christ.

This was quite common in the 20th century and still is today, when conversions to Catholicism was/is quite common among many influential intellectual and literary figures. This is true even after years of harsh opposition to the faith.

So for all the atheists here, there's still hope for you! :D
It does not matter what you call the Big Brother.
He is always there, lurking.

For your benefit, of course.
Let the rest of the world suffer.
It is bad, bad.
 

Poser

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too bad praying doesnt do shit to tumors

It can if they believe it enough. Which means that those that don't have their tumors go away, must not have believed in God enough.
 

Anonymous

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So for all the atheists here, there's still hope for you! :D

I don't have to convert, I already did before I became an atheist. According to your religion (assuming that you're not catholic, I think), I can now live my life of atheistic hedonism and still get into the same place that you do.
 

matmos

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So for all the atheists here, there's still hope for you! :D

I assume that your analysis includes all the atheists that did not covert to Catholicism (or other such fiction) on their death beds?

Presumably if we supplied a few non-recanting atheists' names that would illustrate the opposite? - "For all you believers - there's no hope for you yet!".

All the best.
 

Jack Flak

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Maybe that's just the story, eh? Like, he's not around to deny it, so his family decided he's Catholic now? I don't know. :)
 
S

Sniffles

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I don't have to convert, I already did before I became an atheist. According to your religion (assuming that you're not catholic, I think), I can now live my life of atheistic hedonism and still get into the same place that you do.

Perhaps, but it's good to remember that deathbed conversions are not an absolute gurantee that one will get into heaven, especially if one takes the attitude you have. God isn't a fool you know.
 

Mole

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There's no direct proof of that, only a dubious letter from his boyfriend Robert Ross, telling he converted a few minutes before dying. But the doctors, who were both present, never acknowledged this story.

Wilde was a fierce atheist during most of intellectual life. And since the Roman catholic Church then condemned any act of homosexuality as one of the most immoral and evil sin, the possibility that Wilde really converted remains quite questionable.

The paper you quoted, Peguy, is extremely unaccurate about Wilde's life and facts, and I fear its author is inventing half of them (I've studied Wilde's diary in the National Library of France, so he can't fool me). It's so deeply biased it's almost ridiculous.

The death bed conversion is an old trope of Catholicism.

It is simply an old, worn out cliche of Catholic propaganda.

And it is simply bad taste to keep on trotting it out.
 

Anonymous

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Perhaps, but it's good to remember that deathbed conversions are not an absolute gurantee that one will get into heaven, especially if one takes the attitude you have. God isn't a fool you know.

I was under the impression that the verse "confess with your mouth and believe with your heart" (or roughly like that, at least), was not conditional. I've done both, so aren't I saved now? I mean, otherwise, it would mean that the bible is not 100% accurate, which wouldn't be a very good thing for the infallible word of god.
 
S

Sniffles

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I was under the impression that the verse "confess with your mouth and believe with your heart" (or roughly like that, at least), was not conditional. I've done both, so aren't I saved now?

No, you're saved when you're dead. You cannot declare yourself "saved" before judgement.

Plus, there's a difference between Perfect contrition and Imperfect contrition. Perfect contrition is when a person confesses to sin because they are geniunely sorry for it. Imperfect contrition is when somebody confesses to sin largely because they're afraid of going to Hell. Although imperfect contrition is recognised, it's recognised as also being second-nature to Perfect contrition.

So if one is really interested in being saved, they would try to strive for perfect contrition as much as possible. By settling for the bare minimum necessary for salvation(Minimalism), you're playing a dangerous game with your soul really.
 
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