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Freemasonry

pure_mercury

Order Now!
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
6,946
MBTI Type
ESFJ
What do people know about Freemasonry? My new roommate is a very interesting character (in AA, studying to be a Gnostic priest, friends with many SoCal esoterics) and he suggested that I might be interested in becoming a Mason, based on some things I was saying over a game of chess about liberty and personal responsibility. I wanted to get some more information from people who may know more. I know that many prominent Americans are Masons, and I always like learning about subcultures and societies.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
Do you believe in a supreme being? I think that's a requirement.

To me they seem like a glorified country club.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,511
MBTI Type
ENTP
To me they seem like a glorified country club.

Yeah. It's very doubtful that all the conspiracies surrounding them are true, but the fact that they revel in the secrecy and intrigue indicates to me that they are more interested in their perceived exclusivity and influence than anything. It's immature.
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,078
MBTI Type
Hype
I very much like what I do know, such as the idea that everyone will have their own unique placement hence perspective "underneath God", and this concept seems almost innate in the spirit of the 1st amendment. Let each find thier proper place is a good policy that's hard to argue with!

There's a lot of mystery and folklore around their clannishness, though. I don't know what to believe with regards to that.
 

Wild horses

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,916
MBTI Type
ENFP
I have heard some weird stuff about rituals... but agin it coul djust be folklore.. didn't know that you had to believe in a supreme being to be a member though interesting is it techincally a kind of religion then or is that just a porcess used for selection??
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
What do people know about Freemasonry? My new roommate is a very interesting character (in AA, studying to be a Gnostic priest, friends with many SoCal esoterics) and he suggested that I might be interested in becoming a Mason, based on some things I was saying over a game of chess about liberty and personal responsibility. I wanted to get some more information from people who may know more. I know that many prominent Americans are Masons, and I always like learning about subcultures and societies.

There is a large Masonic premises not far from where I am sitting.

When Canberra was founded free land was set aside for every and all religions and beliefs including the Masons.

And the Masons built on prestigious and valuable land right next to the Parliamentary Triangle.

But over tha last 20 years or so, their membership has been declining and declining until there were only a few old men left.

And as I write the wrecking machines are tearing the building down.

Here the Masons have become ridiculous - the opposite of cool.
 

Valiant

Courage is immortality
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Messages
3,895
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
The masons seem pretty ridiculous here in Sweden, too... It's an age-old tradition that the "powerful" and wealthy people meet in one place... But seriously... It's a goddamn joke. My father was invited but he declined with a laugh, I would do the same.
 

erm

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
1,652
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5
I have a few step family who are members.

One was the Supreme-Master of his lodge or something. My parents went to his mason party a while ago and they said nothing really happened, it was just a regular party except they toasted to the universal creator.

Seems like nothing special really happens, you just get a few connections from it.
 

lowtech redneck

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
3,711
MBTI Type
INTP
What do people know about Freemasonry? My new roommate is a very interesting character (in AA, studying to be a Gnostic priest, friends with many SoCal esoterics) and he suggested that I might be interested in becoming a Mason, based on some things I was saying over a game of chess about liberty and personal responsibility. I wanted to get some more information from people who may know more. I know that many prominent Americans are Masons, and I always like learning about subcultures and societies.

Many of the Founding Father's were Mason's, and if I remember correctly the freemasons in the United States were strong supporters of the American Revolution on ideological grounds-that's probably what gave your roommate his idea. The Mason's have essentially become a victom of their own success; the values they espoused have become mainstream, and the society and institutions they were instrumental in creating has rendered that sort of enlightened old-boy's network irrelevent. The masons are slowly dying, now-I'm grateful for what they did for my country, but I don't mourn their passing.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
Just another religion, just like Militant Atheism or Christian Fundamentalism.
 

swordpath

New member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
10,547
MBTI Type
ISTx
Enneagram
5w6
If it weren't centered around religion, I'd probably be interested to join. Secretive clubs, ftw.

I still want to try my luck at Bohemian Grove.
 

Hirsch63

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
524
MBTI Type
IS??
I do not understand it as a religion at all. One of the requirements for membership is belief in a monotheistic god, a Universal Architect. It does not specify a particular deity. They are willing to forego a partricular dogma in order to achieve an effective organization.

See: Born in Blood by Robinson.

They are a largely fraternal order these days doing good works here in the states as the Masonic organizantion of Shriner's Hospitals. I have personally known people who were helped extensively by this charity. While it is certainly possible (as it is with any organized group of humans) that during it's history some masonic division acted in opposition to their declared beliefs, the work of the Shriner's goes a long way to amending any wrongs.

And Victor is right, their membership dwindles, and with it the ability of the Shriners to move ahead with their mission to aid suffering children, free of charge. They are seen as sometimes ridiculous old men in Fez hats parading during holidays...leftovers from a bygone era of community that relied more on personal, local affiliations more than Hollywood dictated images of what "looks" good. I do think that the latest National treasure films with "Nick Cage" are thinly disguised efforts to revive interest in this declining yet still very useful service group.

In short it is a group with a long colorful, history. A group engaged at one level in the most noble of causes; healing afflicted children. A group in need of fresh, intelligent members with ambition...a group that could use the apparent talents of a young man like Pure Mercury.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
I do not understand it as a religion at all. One of the requirements for membership is belief in a monotheistic god, a Universal Architect. It does not specify a particular deity. They are willing to forego a partricular dogma in order to achieve an effective organization.

See: Born in Blood by Robinson.

They are a largely fraternal order these days doing good works here in the states as the Masonic organizantion of Shriner's Hospitals. I have personally known people who were helped extensively by this charity. While it is certainly possible (as it is with any organized group of humans) that during it's history some masonic division acted in opposition to their declared beliefs, the work of the Shriner's goes a long way to amending any wrongs.

And Victor is right, their membership dwindles, and with it the ability of the Shriners to move ahead with their mission to aid suffering children, free of charge. They are seen as sometimes ridiculous old men in Fez hats parading during holidays...leftovers from a bygone era of community that relied more on personal, local affiliations more than Hollywood dictated images of what "looks" good. I do think that the latest National treasure films with "Nick Cage" are thinly disguised efforts to revive interest in this declining yet still very useful service group.

In short it is a group with a long colorful, history. A group engaged at one level in the most noble of causes; healing afflicted children. A group in need of fresh, intelligent members with ambition...a group that could use the apparent talents of a young man like Pure Mercury.

Here it is not just the Masonic Lodges but religion at large that is declining.

And it is declining markedly - church attendance is down by very large amounts.

And I think the Masons are affected in the same way. Only they are very small to start off with. So the general decline means extinction for them.

The religions here don't understand what is happening to them anymore than the Incas knew what was happening to them; or anymore than the Japanese knew what would happen to them. And so on through all nations that have met the West.

But all these peoples have one thing in common - they believed their own propaganda.

The Inca chief believed he was the son of the Sun and was terribly surprised that he was defeated by 100 Spaniards in an afternoon, even though the Inca had 80,000 armed troops immediately to hand.

And the Japanese believed the Emperor was descended from the Sun God until we showed them the sun one afternoon in Hiroshima.

There is only one sin propagandists can commit and that is to believe their own propaganda. And this is a temptation almost impossible to resist.

And certainly the cult of MBTI is unable to resist this temptation.

So MBTI will go the way of the Incas and Imperial Japan.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
Religion itself doesn't go away, it just goes by different names. When one is turned over, another develops to take its place and sure the rituals change and the beliefs change but it's the same sort of magical thought at it's core. Those who think religion will be someday be eraticated don't understand human nature.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
Religion itself doesn't go away, it just goes by different names. When one is turned over, another develops to take its place and sure the rituals change and the beliefs change but it's the same sort of magical thought at it's core. Those who think religion will be someday be eraticated don't understand human nature.

Religions are begun by a charismatic individual. But eventually he passes away. And there is no alternative but to turn the religion into a bureaucracy.

The thought of bureaucracies is called ideology, and the recruitment of bureaucracies is called propaganda.

And the temptation is always to believe your own propaganda.

This puts you a disadvantage in dealing with reality. As was found by the Incas and Imperial Japan.

You can see this process clearly with MBTI.

The father of MBTI is a charismatic individual called Carl Jung. When he passed away, his thought was bureaucratised by Mrs Briggs and her daughter, Mrs Myers into MBTI.

Good heavens, it is an acronym - just like any good bureaucratic acronym today.

And the bureaucracy recruits through its propaganda.

And like all good girls and boys, we believe our own propaganda and so lose touch with reality.
 
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