Prayers by the Lake - for those interested in Eastern Christian mysticism

[Sniffles]

The Prayers by the Lake written in 1922 by St. Bishop Nikolai Velimirovich. The title derives from the fact that he wrote them while living in a monastary on the shores of Lake Ohrid in southern Yugoslavia.

Here are some excerpts from this work, accompained by beautiful Eastern Orthodox chants.

[youtube="QF5qeVfdavY"]Prayers by the Lake[/youtube]

[youtube="Mjh8Vm7AZ-c"]Prayers by the Lake II[/youtube]

[youtube="7QLUg9K9Z6E"]Prayers by the Lake 5[/youtube]

[youtube="_alaka8UL3M"]Prayers by the Lake XXIX[/youtube]

You can read the prayers themselves here:
Prayers by the Lake

 

[GargoylesLegacy]

Gee, Peguy...this is very very beautiful. I am always impressed about your Posts and where you get all those wonderful Things from. Thank you so much for posting this.

 

[nomadic]

eastern orthodoxy church seems cool. if im correct, i think they have a more spiritual interpretation (haven't watched the videos)

my gawd, i posted in a thread about church and had a clubbing post in the same day. horrible!

 

[Sniffles]

eastern orthodoxy church seems cool. if im correct, i think they have a more spiritual interpretation (haven't watched the videos)

I sincerely doubt it's more spiritual than the Western tradition; although there are some remarkable differences between the Western and Eastern approaches to mysticism.

This notion probably comes from the Orthodox practice of Hesychasm, where a person retreats into onself to discover knowledge of God. Many have noted the similiarities between this practice and those of meditation from Eastern religions.

The Russian philosopher Nikolai Berdyaev(who was Orthodox) comments about the differences between the two traditions in "Unifying Christians of the East and the West" and summarises the difference as that of: "Eastern Christianity, which inherited the hellenistic spirit, was more meditatively disposed, it concerned itself more in discussing dogmatic questions, and the essential work of the Eastern Patristics was in shaping the dogmas...The West was more practical; it inherited the Roman spirit; is was more busy with questions of organization of the Church and with moral theology."

Or as another Russian philosopher Vladimir Soloviev stated, "While the Eastern Church prays, the Church of the West both prays and works."

That's about as simple as one can possibly summarised the differences between the two traditions, although it goes much deeper than that.

There is much about the Eastern tradition that I love and adore, but at the same time I must honestly say that my spiritual heart belongs in the Western tradition.

Gee, Peguy...this is very very beautiful. I am always impressed about your Posts and where you get all those wonderful Things from. Thank you so much for posting this.

Thank you.

Well the spiritual richness of the Eastern tradition is not well known to many people. And since many here claim to be interested in mysticism and spirituality, I figure this would be of great interest to them.

 

[Sniffles]

BTW, here's another one of the prayers:
[youtube="GirsJZEVZkE"]Prayers by the Lake 30[/youtube]

 

[Anja]

I've only watched the first, Peguy, and plan to return to enjoy them in small servings because the gift is pretty rich to my taste and needs time to digest.

Thanks. As usual, your taste in matters of spirituality is deep.

It's that dualistic nature of his prayers. He's a "straddler" too! Somewhere in between heaven and earth, Eastern and Western from my perpective. And leaning East?

I understand the concept of the Fruits which feed the soul and the fruits which are corrupt and cause decay but can no longer hold that belief. The idea actually shrinks my spiritual world! Too small. Yes.

While I'm earthbound it is all of the same. So, yes, there is an understanding.

Words. Shucks. They fail me.

Perhaps I'll understand more with continued viewing.

 

[Sniffles]

I look forward to your commenta Anja.

I will say that he does seem a bit too other-worldly or detached from the world in the pursuit of God. I tend to uphold the paradox that spiritual wisdom comes from a certain detachment as well as attachment to the world. Very much in the tradition of St. Francis.

And yes I do straddle between the East and the West. Many members of my family are Eastern Christians.

 

[Anja]

Okay. I came back for #2. Okay. Um. Okay.

Laffin' a little after the initial shock. That one was tough.

Seems he straddles the world of grandiosity and humility some as well. Human condition in action.

Why do I think of Islamic culture?

When I've watched them all I'll tell you a bit about something that gelled my spirituality for me about a year ago.

 

[Sniffles]

Okay. I came back for #2. Okay. Um. Okay.

Laffin' a little after the initial shock. That one was tough.

Oh what, the talk about the bed of worms?

Why do I think of Islamic culture?

Well it may get back to what I stated about Hesychasm, and how it relates to Islamic Sufism and other Eastern forms of meditation.

As I kinda mentioned earlier, he seems to be speaking from a standard Eastern monastic viewpoint - which is different from the Western one.

Eastern Monasticism started with St. Anthony, whom went out into the deserts of Egypt to be with God alone. This started a whole movement of Christian hermits forsaking much of social and human contact for this purpose. Eventually these hermits came together and formed monastaries. Yet the basic idea behind the early hermit still lived on, since many Eastern monastaries are literally out in the middle of nowhere - like St. Catherine's or Mount Athos.

Western Monasticism by constrast seems to be more moderate in terms of its detachment from the world.

Of course this is a very tricky topic, one which is not easily explained. You almost have to experience both traditions to fully see their differences.

So I take it overall you're enjoying this?

 

[Evi]

I shall have to come back and pay more attention to the words. Right now just taking in the sound is enough...

 

[Giggly]

I like the first and the last one.

 

[Anja]

So I take it overall you're enjoying this?

You realize that you are asking much here? I consider your offering the quantity to be a sampling to get a better idea. A larger overview.

My slowness in taking them in is of necessity and also some of a hindrance for memory's sake!

Am I enjoying it? Well. I'm a curious person so in that sense, yes. I'm also taking it seriously enough that it's more like work than fun.

Once I've got it all viewed, we'll see what comes out of it for me.

Watching the third one now.

 

[Anja]

Oh dear. It's that comparison of the natural vs. the spiritual which catches me up.

The elements of his revulsion are jarring to me.

 

[Hirsch63]

Thank you, Peguy for taking the time to deliver these. Great work.

 

[Anja]

Okay. Done.

Very colorful and vivid imagery.

He's sure caught up in the struggle. A necessary path, I think.

I've jotted a few reminders during the week and will discuss it at more length if you'd like.

I'll need some thoughts from you to continue. Something to get started here.

 

[Sniffles]

I'll need some thoughts from you to continue. Something to get started here.

Ok....well I rather like the first prayer when he makes references to the fact that many people are content to rely on crutch, and that true devotion to God requires one to rise above that kind of mentality. As he stated, only the strong are able to do good and devote themselves to God.

It's also pretty ironic since the analogy to a crutch is a common Atheist cliche used to deingrate people of faith.

It reminds me of what Søren Kierkegaard stated in Sickness Unto Death:

"There is so much talk about being offended by Christianity because it is so dark and gloomy, offended because it is so rigorous, etc., but it would be best of all to explain for once that the real reason that men are offended by Christianity is that it is too high, because its goal is not man’s goal, because it wants to make man into something so extraordinary that he cannot grasp the thought."

This theme is certainly well expressed by St. Bishop Nikolai Velimirovich in these prayers.

In fact I notice several parallels between this and the writings of Kierkegaard, even if Kierkegaard was commenting from the Lutheran as opposed to the Orthodox tradition of Christianity. That is, the basic theme of solitary union with God.

I can relate to this concept on many deep levels, but at the same time I also stress the importance of the interhuman in spiritual matters. I also follow in the path of my namesakes in stressing the connection between temporal and eternal salvation.

I greatly appreciate the spiritual richness of the Christian East, including examples such as this. As I stated, many members of my family are of the Eastern tradition, and there was a mixing of Eastern and Western traditions in my family. So in many ways I can relate to both worlds.

But at the same time, it also shows me how very much my spiritual heart lies within the Western tradition. This is especially true in regards to Western Christian mysticism.

Perhaps when you're done commenting on this, I can show you examples of Western mystics like St. John of the Cross; and you can better appreciate and compare the two traditions.

 

[Anja]

I remember reading about San Juan de la Cruz when I studied Spanish history. Long time ago. I felt a sense of connection with him and the other Spanish mystics. Heck, any mystics!

St. Julian of Norwich is another. "All manner of things will yet be well."

The idea of people accusing those of faith as weak and needing crutches is ironic in the sense that I see them as needy mendicants lying in the gutter and scorning those who are able to walk with assistance!

His ambivalence about his human condition is only exceeded by his ambivalence about his spirit! That dualism just catches me up. Can't do it!

It is interesting to me that this has played out in his removing himself from society and still he is "of." Great deal of discontent in the spiritual stage he inhabits.

He seems to perceive the divine in self. Is he capable of seeing it in others?

The striving intellectualism, while it seems important to work through, is actually a barrier to a joyful faith, I think.

 

[Anja]

Gotta come back, remembering that I'm comunicating with a Jay.

No value judgement in the final statement. I see it all as part of a process.

 

[Anja]

More.

Can you give me a quick bio?

Age at the time he wrote, former life experience in the community?

 

[Wild horses]

Hesychasm - I think the only real difference in this respect between the East and West is its practice. The general idea however, is very prevelant in Charismatic Churches in the West. It says in the Bible that indeed by faith Jesus Himself comes to live in us and so any exploration of Him will ultimately lead us inwards. The idea that we must preform works does not somehow disconnect us from this princle though and is based on Biblical teaching that "Faith without works is dead"

I personally love the detachment that he promotes and it fits in with the sentiment that we are "In the world but not of it"

I think in the West instead of hermits we have fasts and during this process one can become quite isolated. It is undertaken for similar purposes/. Am going to enjoy the rest of them now I just wanted to share some thoughts