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on Philosophy of Education

SolitaryWalker

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Axiom: The ultimate end to all education is emendation of the intellect.

Intellect: Ability to solve complex problems as quickly and accurately as possible.

Requirements: Abstract perception and logical reasoning skills. The former cannot be taught. One either is able to generate abstract perceptions or is not. One is either imaginative or not imaginative. However, one's logical reasoning skills could be cultivated in a very systematic fashion.

Role of education in emendation of the intellect: Furnishing of logical reasoning skills.

How is this to be done?
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Three components of education: 1. Logic/Mathematics. 2. Philosophy. 3.Rhetoric

Logic teaches us the patterns of reasoning and sharpens our reasoning skills directly. Philosophy teaches us to apply these skills to solving all problems that we could envisage. Rhetoric teaches us to communicate our ideas to others and therefore allows for us to assist on another in our task to cultivate our reasoning skills.
 

SillySapienne

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What about education via experimentation, observing, modeling, playing, collecting, sorting and analyzing experience/information and through interacting, i.e. brainstorming with other people?

I believe that the fundamental role of education and hence of educators is to provide students with the right arsenal of tools so as to prime and prepare them to eventually one day each become independent, critical thinkers, which in essence would enable and liberate them to actually be able to educate/think for themselves.

Also, I think educators do kids a great disservice by falsely assuming that everybody learns/acquires knowledge in the same way.
 

Bufo

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Brief but nice.

Requirements: Abstract perception and logical reasoning skills. The former cannot be taught.

Can be taught, I think; though classrooms may not be sufficient. A wise and careful child rearing may induce the ability for abstract perception in children.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Can be taught, I think; though classrooms may not be sufficient. A wise and careful child rearing may induce the ability for abstract perception in children.

Explain further how this could be done.
 

Eileen

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Also, I think educators do kids a great disservice by falsely assuming that everybody learns/acquires knowledge in the same way.

If educators still do this, it's because they obstinately fail to hear what has been being said for years in education.
 

saieditor

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Axiom: The ultimate end to all education is emendation of the intellect.

The end of education is character.

Intellect: Ability to solve complex problems as quickly and accurately as possible.

That's a definition of intelligence. All intelligence is problem solving skill.

Requirements: Abstract perception and logical reasoning skills.

For who? NT's? Yep.

For SP, SJ, and NF learners, a resounding NO.

The former cannot be taught. One either is able to generate abstract perceptions or is not.

I tell you what I tell my students who are not NT's.
Insight of intellect into phantasm produces understanding. (Anaximander)

I let them go and grade them a pass provided they can show how they reached their conclusions.

One is either imaginative or not imaginative.

Kaphophatic and apophatic are the words you are looking for.

However, one's logical reasoning skills could be cultivated in a very systematic fashion.

Yes, but what of the learning style of different types? You are speaking NT language here, which may be alienating to other types. A fine theory, but somewhat impractical.

Role of education in emendation of the intellect: Furnishing of logical reasoning skills.

Role of Education: Furnishing skills which contribute to good character.


How is this to be done?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Three components of education: 1. Logic/Mathematics. 2. Philosophy. 3.Rhetoric

Logic teaches us the patterns of reasoning and sharpens our reasoning skills directly. Philosophy teaches us to apply these skills to solving all problems that we could envisage. Rhetoric teaches us to communicate our ideas to others and therefore allows for us to assist on another in our task to cultivate our reasoning skills.

Very good. Especially for NT's. But my SP students, my NF students, my SJ students would all struggle. What do you offer different learning styles?
 

Orangey

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Yes, but what of the learning style of different types? You are speaking NT language here, which may be alienating to other types. A fine theory, but somewhat impractical.

He's said nothing about the process of teaching, only what subjects need to be taught. I do think his model is missing a letters category, though. Unless the rhetoric part would cover literature (though it sounds more like it would cover communication and argument).
 

ygolo

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Requirements: Abstract perception and logical reasoning skills. The former cannot be taught. One either is able to generate abstract perceptions or is not.

Computer Science, Applied Computational Mathematics, and General Engineering (taken by many Engineering disciplines--mainly in the form of feedback and control theory or "Signals and Systems") all have explit coursework intended to teach people how to make proper abstractions.

I am sure many other programs have similar courses.

This endevour, when taken as a whole is known as "Math Modeling."
 

SolitaryWalker

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Computer Science, Applied Computational Mathematics, and General Engineering (taken by many Engineering disciplines--mainly in the form of feedback and control theory or "Signals and Systems") all have explit coursework intended to teach people how to make proper abstractions.

I am sure many other programs have similar courses.

This endevour, when taken as a whole is known as "Math Modeling."

It is pretty clear that the disciplines you mentioned cultivate one's logical reasoning skills, though it is unclear to me how they cultivate one's faculties of imagination.

It seems plausible to me however, that a person who deals with abstract ideas often or frequently uses his imagination will become slightly more imaginative, but not significantly more. With logical reasoning, this is not so. Even the most illogical of individuals, over time, may learn to reason with competence.

He's said nothing about the process of teaching, only what subjects need to be taught. I do think his model is missing a letters category, though. Unless the rhetoric part would cover literature (though it sounds more like it would cover communication and argument).


That is correct. The purpose of subjects of rhetoric is to teach the student the skills necessary to discuss ideas with others. This clearly will involve a careful study of communication techniques and literature. The study of literature will be means to the end of the study of communication techniques. In order to communicate effectively, one must understand human nature, as this is required in order to understand how people perceive ideas. Literature often offers great insight into human nature as well as many useful techniques of expression, as we notice the most elaborate and creative uses of language are found most easily in novels, plays and poetry. Clearly one of the salient merits of a literary artist consist in his ability to convey as many thoughts and emotions as possible in a way that others would be influenced.

The end of education is character. ?

You seem to have a different notion of education in mind than I do. Mine is very specific regarding what one must accomplish in order to become a competent thinker. This is the notion of education that is most common in post-graduate university programs. The notion of education that you seem to have in mind is more common in the schooling systems for children and teenagers.




That's a definition of intelligence. All intelligence is problem solving skill.



For who? NT's? Yep.

For SP, SJ, and NF learners, a resounding NO. ?

Essentially, when we solve a problem, we first use our imagination to conceive of what the problem is, or simply get an idea of what the problem is that we are working with, secondly we perform logical analysis to arrive at the very specific results that we are looking for.

It seems to be the case that all types do this, not just NTs.

You suggest that this is not the only way to solve complex problems, please point out a different way to do so.









Kaphophatic and apophatic are the words you are looking for. ?

These words do not exist in the conventional dictionary. (Dictionary.com)

Though perhaps they may be found in a more technical dictionary. Explain their meaning further please.



Yes, but what of the learning style of different types? You are speaking NT language here, which may be alienating to other types. A fine theory, but somewhat impractical. ?

Very good. Especially for NT's. But my SP students, my NF students, my SJ students would all struggle. What do you offer different learning styles

That is not relevant to my theory, as Orangey pointed out, I am merely concerned with exploring the question of what subjects ought to be taught.

Generally, when we get to the level of education my inquiry focuses on (post-graduate university level) most students have a clear idea of what learning style works best for them and they have the liberty to employ whatever method suits their purposes. Because the educator offers such liberties to the student, he is exampt from the responsibilities to accomodate their needs in this regard.
 

ygolo

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It is pretty clear that the disciplines you mentioned cultivate one's logical reasoning skills, though it is unclear to me how they cultivate one's faculties of imagination.

It seems plausible to me however, that a person who deals with abstract ideas often or frequently uses his imagination will become slightly more imaginative, but not significantly more. With logical reasoning, this is not so. Even the most illogical of individuals, over time, may learn to reason with competence.

Imagination comes in various forms. Design Engineering in particular requires holding a very long term focus on the design of something that is yet to exist.

However, what I meant by the previous comment is the "proper abstraction" is the object of study and practice in all the disciplines I mentioned.

There are "good" abstractions and "bad" ones. There are measures of complexity of abstraction. There are measures of effectiveness, and accuracy, measures of similiarity, equivelence, subjugation, of various abstractions. There are measures of systematic bias, and various other aspects of abstractions themselves studied in all these various forms of "math modeling."

In sum, the whole aim of these branches of study are to teach people how to make abstractions. From my experience, these fields are rather successful in this endevour.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Imagination comes in various forms. Design Engineering in particular requires holding a very long term focus on the design of something that is yet to exist.

However, what I meant by the previous comment is the "proper abstraction" is the object of study and practice in all the disciplines I mentioned.

There are "good" abstractions and "bad" ones. There are measures of complexity of abstraction. There are measures of effectiveness, and accuracy, measures of similiarity, equivelence, subjugation, of various abstractions. There are measures of systematic bias, and various other aspects of abstractions themselves studied in all these various forms of "math modeling."

In sum, the whole aim of these branches of study are to teach people how to make abstractions. From my experience, these fields are rather successful in this endevour.

We are back to the earlier problem. This fields teach us how to analyze abstractions, but do not teach us how to imagine them. Or is this not so?

Clearly, if there is a systematic method to teach people to be more imaginative in a fashion analogous to teaching them to be more logical, I would like to know about it. Imagination is a purely abstract unconscious perception. It could be cultivated through consistent practice, but because the nature of this cognitive faculty is very abstract and amorphous, I have difficulty imagining a systematic fashion to cultivate it.
 

ygolo

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We are back to the earlier problem. This fields teach us how to analyze abstractions, but do not teach us how to imagine them. Or is this not so?

Clearly, if there is a systematic method to teach people to be more imaginative in a fashion analogous to teaching them to be more logical, I would like to know about it. Imagination is a purely abstract unconscious perception. It could be cultivated through consistent practice, but because the nature of this cognitive faculty is very abstract and amorphous, I have difficulty imagining a systematic fashion to cultivate it.

True. The disciplines do presuppose that one has the basic ability to imagine rather simple things. But they also give ample practice in doing so.

Diagrams in engineering are direct abstractions, a resistor is symbolized like this, a capacitor like so, a transistor like so, and so on. The equations associated with the elements are learned by route most of the time. Similarly in mechanical and thermal engineering.

The disiplines do teach how to construct larger abstractions from smaller ones, so in this way a basic ability to imagine a few simple abstractions is honed into an ability imagine very complex abstractions.

As for the basic ability to imagine very simple things...
There are "exercises" that help in this regard...
Meditation, prayer, day-dreaming, vivid remembering, art, crafts, music, dance, sports, acting, writing, and games all build the basic ability to imagine through practice.

As for teaching someone who cannot imagine anything? I don't know. I am not sure such a person exists.
 

SolitaryWalker

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True. The disciplines do presuppose that one has the basic ability to imagine rather simple things. But they also give ample practice in doing so.

Diagrams in engineering are direct abstractions, a resistor is symbolized like this, a capacitor like so, a transistor like so, and so on. The equations associated with the elements are learned by route most of the time. Similarly in mechanical and thermal engineering.

The disiplines do teach how to construct larger abstractions from smaller ones, so in this way a basic ability to imagine a few simple abstractions is honed into an ability imagine very complex abstractions.

As for the basic ability to imagine very simple things...
There are "exercises" that help in this regard...
Meditation, prayer, day-dreaming, vivid remembering, art, crafts, music, dance, sports, acting, writing, and games all build the basic ability to imagine through practice.

As for teaching someone who cannot imagine anything? I don't know. I am not sure such a person exists.

Intellectual disciplines you mentioned presuppose one's ability to imagine not only the most basic things, but highly complex things. Very few people have the ability to imagine such things to a satisfactory degree and that is why many complex ideas are off limits for them.

It seems to be the case that practicing imagining things can enhance one's imagination slightly, not significantly however. Do you wish to argue that it is possible to enhance one's imagination significantly? For instance, could a person who was at once very unimaginative become a visionary?
 

Maabus1999

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Axiom: The ultimate end to all education is emendation of the intellect.

Intellect: Ability to solve complex problems as quickly and accurately as possible.

Requirements: Abstract perception and logical reasoning skills. The former cannot be taught. One either is able to generate abstract perceptions or is not. One is either imaginative or not imaginative. However, one's logical reasoning skills could be cultivated in a very systematic fashion.

Role of education in emendation of the intellect: Furnishing of logical reasoning skills.

How is this to be done?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Three components of education: 1. Logic/Mathematics. 2. Philosophy. 3.Rhetoric

Logic teaches us the patterns of reasoning and sharpens our reasoning skills directly. Philosophy teaches us to apply these skills to solving all problems that we could envisage. Rhetoric teaches us to communicate our ideas to others and therefore allows for us to assist on another in our task to cultivate our reasoning skills.

This is the educational peak of certain personality types, not society as a whole. Unless you make philosophy really, really broad...

And where is creativity? Most "geniuses" came across their ideas by creative imaginations, not spending all day thinking up things through math equations (and I love math btw...).

Also your environment plays a huge factor on your education. Think of it as a person has a potential, but the environment is what nurtures that potential.

Also, in what way are you applying education to society? This is more scholarly of a definition then vocational. Please explain to me how this form of education will help you become a mechanic or some other advanced skill based job where education is skill based and not scholarly.
 

SolitaryWalker

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This is the educational peak of certain personality types, not society as a whole. Unless you make philosophy really, really broad...

And where is creativity? Most "geniuses" came across their ideas by creative imaginations, not spending all day thinking up things through math equations (and I love math btw...).

Also your environment plays a huge factor on your education. Think of it as a person has a potential, but the environment is what nurtures that potential.

Also, in what way are you applying education to society? This is more scholarly of a definition then vocational. Please explain to me how this form of education will help you become a mechanic or some other advanced skill based job where education is skill based and not scholarly.


All the answers to your questions may be found in the last 3 of my posts. Pay close attention to post 10.
 

Orangey

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Also, in what way are you applying education to society? This is more scholarly of a definition then vocational. Please explain to me how this form of education will help you become a mechanic or some other advanced skill based job where education is skill based and not scholarly.

I don't understand this question. The model of education presented in the OP is explicitly scholarly. Your question, therefore, is equivalent to asking a technical school (say, a heating and cooling training program) why they don't cover Plato in the curriculum. It's absurd.
 

Maabus1999

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I don't understand this question. The model of education presented in the OP is explicitly scholarly. Your question, therefore, is equivalent to asking a technical school (say, a heating and cooling training program) why they don't cover Plato in the curriculum. It's absurd.

How it reads is talking just about tenets of education and intellect. I was just asking about other forms of education and their value. And how he is implying all education should be based around that, and adds more later, his OP has some flaws on an applicable scale, in my opinion. He later clarifies. However, being he says "all" education, yet you think he is explicitly saying scholarly is "absurd"...
 

Maabus1999

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All the answers to your questions may be found in the last 3 of my posts. Pay close attention to post 10.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I really don't have time to read more then the first post, think about it, respond, and move on to something else. Just what I do unless something appears to have resounding purpose to read and discuss. I will go read your post 10.
 
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