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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    The decline of church membership, especially in the last 20 years, has been so sharp it's worth its own visual:



    20 years is incredibly fast for a cultural shift like that. But I do think it coincides with a general decline since 2000 of American and specifically young American institutional trust. Trust in the church, trust in the government, trust in media, trust in generalized leadership and authority is really at an all time low and religion/church is especially part of that institutional sect.
    I wonder what the alternative is?

    That's a very sharp decline, what would the equivalent graph be that's experiencing an uptick? Cosplay? Comic Con?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If only people trying to limit opportunities and even basic common decency for LGBT people
    Well, I know I mentioned the businesses being closed or penalized in the UK or persons excluded from professions as therapists in the UK because they where heteronormative, maybe you didnt read about it. Or care about it. Anyway, it would be a mistake to characterize those individuals as trying to limit "even basic common decency" for anyone, they cant conform with what's demanded by increasing LGBT militancy. I think its wrong to say they cant work, cant run a business as a result, that feels like a violation of human rights to me. I know you dont see it that way and I'm sure you have your reasons and have no doubts about.

    I'm sure that mindset is not without precedent in human history too. You know if you think about it.

  3. #23
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I wonder what the alternative is?

    That's a very sharp decline, what would the equivalent graph be that's experiencing an uptick? Cosplay? Comic Con?
    Based on my social media, it's astrology, MLMs, and adherence to a left vs right political ideology.



  4. #24
    I Will Do This Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well, I know I mentioned the businesses being closed or penalized in the UK or persons excluded from professions as therapists in the UK because they where heteronormative, maybe you didnt read about it. Or care about it. Anyway, it would be a mistake to characterize those individuals as trying to limit "even basic common decency" for anyone, they cant conform with what's demanded by increasing LGBT militancy. I think its wrong to say they cant work, cant run a business as a result, that feels like a violation of human rights to me. I know you dont see it that way and I'm sure you have your reasons and have no doubts about.

    I'm sure that mindset is not without precedent in human history too. You know if you think about it.
    "Heteronormative"? Does that mean viewing heterosexuality as right and anything else as wrong? Does it come with a license to exclude people who are not heterosexuals from whatever you are offering to others on the open market? If so, then I would sanction this behavior, too. We no longer allow it directed toward women, blacks, Catholics, the disabled, etc. and we are finally realizing we can't allow it toward LGBT folks, either. Compare how many LGBT people have been killed or assaulted just for being LGBT, with how many straight/cis people have been killed or assaulted just for being straight/cis, and then tell me who is being militant. Self-preservation is a fundamental human right.
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  5. #25
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    What would Jesus do?

    To answer the question we need to know who Jesus is, and almost everything we know about Jesus is found in the New Testament.

    And the New Testament tells us -

    Jesus lived in a Judaic community, based on marriage, yet he never married. - The first red flag -.

    Jesus never made love with a woman. - The second red flag -.

    Jesus never had children of his own. - Never took responsibility for those dependent on him -.

    Jesus loved John his disciple. - An imbalance of power -.

    And Jesus loved other people's children. - Child sexual abuse was not a crime prosecuted under Judaic law or Roman law -.

  6. #26
    Haunted Echoes Red Memories's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    What would Jesus do?

    To answer the question we need to know who Jesus is, and almost everything we know about Jesus is found in the New Testament.

    And the New Testament tells us -

    Jesus lived in a Judaic community, based on marriage, yet he never married. - The first red flag -.

    Jesus never made love with a woman. - The second red flag -.

    Jesus never had children of his own. - Never took responsibility for those dependent on him -.

    Jesus loved John his disciple. - An imbalance of power -.

    And Jesus loved other people's children. - Child sexual abuse was not a crime prosecuted under Judaic law or Roman law -.
    How in the actual heck did you twist the life of Jesus to this level.............good lord. That's like saying me a childless virgin who cares about children is secretly a sexual predator. Your logic is ridiculous. Why must you keep trolling legitimate discussions like this?


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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Memories View Post
    How in the actual heck did you twist the life of Jesus to this level.............good lord. That's like saying me a childless virgin who cares about children is secretly a sexual predator. Your logic is ridiculous. Why must you keep trolling legitimate discussions like this?
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  8. #28
    I Will Do This Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Memories View Post
    How in the actual heck did you twist the life of Jesus to this level.............good lord. That's like saying me a childless virgin who cares about children is secretly a sexual predator. Your logic is ridiculous. Why must you keep trolling legitimate discussions like this?
    I at least consider some of that description to be false. There is strong evidence that Jesus was indeed intimate with, if not actually married to Mary Magdalene. Whether there were any children, we don't know. The evidence for this is routinely dismissed or ignored by most Christian denominations as their doctrine and world view benefit from the notion of a single, celibate Jesus with no women of significance in his life except his mother.
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  9. #29
    Haunted Echoes Red Memories's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I at least consider some of that description to be false. There is strong evidence that Jesus was indeed intimate with, if not actually married to Mary Magdalene. Whether there were any children, we don't know. The evidence for this is routinely dismissed or ignored by most Christian denominations as their doctrine and world view benefit from the notion of a single, celibate Jesus with no women of significance in his life except his mother.
    I don't see why this would be such an odd worldview considering the fact there are saints who have had mystical marriage to Jesus. This implies Jesus did have some kind of intimacy in a least point.


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  10. #30
    I Will Do This Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Memories View Post
    I don't see why this would be such an odd worldview considering the fact there are saints who have had mystical marriage to Jesus. This implies Jesus did have some kind of intimacy in a least point.
    I see it the opposite way. It is easier to imagine spiritual marriages with someone who has had no marriage at all - the implication being that Jesus was "above" ordinary marriage in the flesh. There is plenty of evidence of his relationship with Mary Magdalene in writings that were excluded from the canonical Bible. I never understood this. If someone wants to follow Jesus, it seems they would want to learn all they could about him. Politics of the early church, however, dictated what was included and what was deemed heretical.

    If you are interested in learning more about this, I recommend Elaine Pagels' The Gnostic Gospels. (The link is to a free download.)
    And I can feel I'm breaking free
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