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  1. #1
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    Default The Lingua Franca

    We have discovered that phonetics is the best way to teach literacy to children.

    This should come as no surprise as English is a phonetic language, in contra distinction to pictographic languages such as Chinese, Arabic, Hebrew, and Sanskcrit.

    The first phonetic language was Phoenician, which is linear and sequential, and gives rise to the literate individual.

    Fortunately for CANZUK, the lingua franca of the world, the universal world language, is the phonetic, individual language of English, the language of Shakespeare.

    For instance, there are more Chinese today learning English than there are English speakers in the entire world.

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    Senior Member Kephalos's Avatar
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    Phonetic is a feature of writing systems, not languages. Besides, considering that Phoenician, Hebrew and Arabic not only belong to the same language family (and have similar phonology, grammar, and vocabulary), but that their writing systems are also related and work on the same principle of mostly representing consonant sounds, I can't figure out how Phoenician could be classified as "phonetic" but Hebrew and Arabic not.
    I wish as well as everybody else to be perfectly happy; but, like everybody else it must be in my own way. -- Sense and Sensibility, Jane Austen.

    We have all a better guide in ourselves, if we would attend to it, than any other person can be. -- Mansfield Park, Jane Austen.

    She was not often invited to join in the conversation of the others, nor did she desire it. Her own thoughts and reflections were habitually her best companions. -- Mansfield Park, Jane Austen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kephalos View Post
    Phonetic is a feature of writing systems, not languages. Besides, considering that Phoenician, Hebrew and Arabic not only belong to the same language family (and have similar phonology, grammar, and vocabulary), but that their writing systems are also related and work on the same principle of mostly representing consonant sounds, I can't figure out how Phoenician could be classified as "phonetic" but Hebrew and Arabic not.

    A phonetic language takes meaningless sounds, a,b,c.....z, and creates meaningful words, where by contrast, pictographic languages use stylised pictures to create meaning.

    What is even more interesting is that phonetic literacy is based on the phonetic alphabet, while our mobile phones are based on images and touch.

    So our mobile phones are more like a pictographic language and a spoken culture.

    And even more interesting is how our mobile phones do this. They do this by speeding up Euclidean logic to the speed of light, so transforming print to image.

    For instance, the print we are reading now is not printed, it is an electronic image.

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    Senior Member Kephalos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    A phonetic language (never heard this term? is it spoken language?) takes meaningless sounds, a,b,c.....z, and creates meaningful words, where by contrast, pictographic languages use stylised pictures to create meaning...And even more interesting is how our mobile phones do this. They do this by speeding up Euclidean logic to the speed of light, so transforming print to image...
    It seems to me that what you call "phonetic language" would include any spoken language. So, I still can't understand how such closely related languages like Phoenician and Hebrew can different in being "phonetic" or not, let alone any other spoken language.

    An alphabetic writing system is a more faithful (not fully faithful) visual representation of sounds of a language and that it's more economical over syllabic, consonantal or logographic writing.

    And as for "Euclidean logic", I have never come across this term in either geometry or mathematical logic. Ultimately, the point of a formal axiomatic approach to geometry is to dispense with visual, intuitive (as in anschauliche) component in geomtery and deal only with a formal system of undefined points, lines, planes, spaces, etc., without any content.
    I wish as well as everybody else to be perfectly happy; but, like everybody else it must be in my own way. -- Sense and Sensibility, Jane Austen.

    We have all a better guide in ourselves, if we would attend to it, than any other person can be. -- Mansfield Park, Jane Austen.

    She was not often invited to join in the conversation of the others, nor did she desire it. Her own thoughts and reflections were habitually her best companions. -- Mansfield Park, Jane Austen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kephalos View Post
    It seems to me that what you call "phonetic language" would include any spoken language. So, I still can't understand how such closely related languages like Phoenician and Hebrew can different in being "phonetic" or not, let alone any other spoken language. An alphabetic writing system is a more faithful (not fully faithful) visual representation of sounds of a language and that it's more economical over syllabic, consonantal or logographic writing. And as for "Euclidean logic", I have never come across this term in either geometry or mathematical logic. Ultimately, the point of a formal axiomatic approach to geometry is to dispense with visual, intuitive (as in anschauliche) component in geomtery and deal only with a formal system of undefined points, lines, planes, spaces, etc., without any content.
    I am making these distinctions: a spoken culture, a literate culture, and our present electronic culture.

    And I further distinguish between written cultures as those based on the phoetic alphabet (abc...z), and those based on an alphabet of images, such as the Chinese alphabet.

    And interestingly, our present electronic culture is based on images.

    Note, we are not reading and writing now in print, but we are reading and writing in the image of print.

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    Senior Member Kephalos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I am making these distinctions: a spoken culture, a literate culture, and our present electronic culture.

    And I further distinguish between written cultures as those based on the phoetic alphabet (abc...z), and those based on an alphabet of images, such as the Chinese alphabet.

    And interestingly, our present electronic culture is based on images.

    Note, we are not reading and writing now in print, but we are reading and writing in the image of print.
    Thank you for clarifying. But wouldn't that make our electronic culture a subset of written culture?

    Therr are examples of languages where one variety of the language is written in one script, and another in another script. Like Farsi and Tajiki, Urdu and Hindi, Croatian Bosnian and Serbian. Other languages that changed their script, like Turkish and Romanian. Languages that are written in multiple scripts, like Sanskrit. And of course, Japanese has two systems of syllabaries besides a system based on the Latin script -- a lot of keyboard input methods for the Chinese script rely on romanization.
    I wish as well as everybody else to be perfectly happy; but, like everybody else it must be in my own way. -- Sense and Sensibility, Jane Austen.

    We have all a better guide in ourselves, if we would attend to it, than any other person can be. -- Mansfield Park, Jane Austen.

    She was not often invited to join in the conversation of the others, nor did she desire it. Her own thoughts and reflections were habitually her best companions. -- Mansfield Park, Jane Austen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kephalos View Post
    Thank you for clarifying. But wouldn't that make our electronic culture a subset of written culture?

    Therr are examples of languages where one variety of the language is written in one script, and another in another script. Like Farsi and Tajiki, Urdu and Hindi, Croatian Bosnian and Serbian. Other languages that changed their script, like Turkish and Romanian. Languages that are written in multiple scripts, like Sanskrit. And of course, Japanese has two systems of syllabaries besides a system based on the Latin script -- a lot of keyboard input methods for the Chinese script rely on romanization.
    Yes Kephalos, you are right we translate from one language another, even from one. culture to another.

    And to answer your first point: the general principle is the older medium becomes the content of the new medium, such as manuscripts became the content of the book, and the stage become the content of the movies, so print is now the content of the electronic culture. Just look in front of you, Kephalos, right now, and see print as the content of the electronic image.

    So we can say Western culture is now a subset of electronic culture.

    Everywhere we look we see Westerners on our mobile phones looking at images, even images of print.

    Of course we don't want to see what is right in front of us, and we prefer to drive forward looking in the rear vision mirror. But we only have to turn our heads 180 degrees to see electronic images rushing towards us through the windscreen.

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