• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Let's talk the dislike of religion and spirituality.

theablekingedgar

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
229
So was racism against black people when they were slaves.
So was what Hitler taught people when Jews were massacred.
So are some terrorist attacks, suicide bombings, etc.
So were the words of certain leaders.
So is what gets religious people murdered.
So are the reasons the USA has been so divided and bordering on civil war recently.
So is what people think after being gaslit.

You speak as though beliefs are harmless, yet they are often very far from it.



Beliefs conceive words and actions. Sometimes some beliefs are weapons, therefore.

Humans have beliefs.
But equating non-religion to slavery, genocide, etc. is pretty loose.
One can oppose a belief on its content or purpose.

But then the "hurt" felt by a religious person hearing another isn't religious, canot the same as bigotry.

i'm amused my view triggered you.

or you needed somebody to flex on, since you were feeling dark, or had a bad day, or ARE dark hahaha.
 

Mind Maverick

ENTP 8w7 845 Sp/Sx
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,770
Humans have beliefs.
But equating non-religion to slavery, genocide, etc. is pretty loose.
One can oppose a belief on its content or purpose.

But then the "hurt" felt by a religious person hearing another isn't religious, canot the same as bigotry.

i'm amused my view triggered you.

or you needed somebody to flex on, since you were feeling dark, or had a bad day, or ARE dark hahaha.
I wasn't equating religion or non-religion to these things, although it's not that far off if you think about the wars that have taken place over religion and the genocide and murdering of even babies that took place against Palestinian people "at the command of God" according to the Old Testament in Abrahamic religions.

I was also never triggered. I was merely making points. Interesting that you'd be amused by it if I was though, rather than avoiding offense - I'm beginning to understand more about the kind of person you are. I suppose you've confirmed that you're a troll.
 

theablekingedgar

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
229
I wasn't equating religion to these things, although it's not that far off if you think about the wars that have taken place over religion and the genocide and murdering of even babies that took place against Palestinian people "at the command of God" according to the Old Testament in Abrahamic religions.

I was also never triggered. I was merely making points. Interesting that you'd be amused by it if I was though, rather than avoiding offense - I'm beginning to understand more about the kind of person you are. I suppose you've confirmed that you're a troll.

why am I a troll?

You're the one who aggressively countered my innnocent point just to feel big. it's self-evident, and amusing. the fact you're this dark and think others have to accept your negativity lol. you're the one here clearly aggressive over nothing, just to flex. it's apparent.
 

Mind Maverick

ENTP 8w7 845 Sp/Sx
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,770
why am I a troll?

You're the one who aggressively countered my innnocent point just to feel big. it's self-evident, and amusing. the fact you're this dark and think others have to accept your negativity lol. you're the one here clearly aggressive over nothing, just to flex. it's apparent.
And yet I've not been aggressive nor provoked in the least bit and you're obviously still trolling.
 

theablekingedgar

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
229
And yet I've not been aggressive nor provoked in the least bit and you're obviously still trolling.

i'm not trolling. i initially added a point in the grander context of this topic.
this shows on your character here, and not mine. you're apparently offended that I'm here posting. anybody can do anything in life, your subjective views are not pertinent here. though i'll just ignore boorish people as you. perhaps be happier in life. i am, since i had a nice day doing work from home, and will go one to enjoy my day.
 

Mind Maverick

ENTP 8w7 845 Sp/Sx
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,770
A note to others here that are worth bothering with, unlike the troll - I actually somehow misread the troll's post as saying:

"It's just opinions.

People who hate those who hate religion, fuck you. lol.
It's a BELIEF. get over it!"


Thus, I interpreted this as something implying that beliefs are insignificant and harmless, then proceeded to counter this statement with reasons that's untrue.

EDIT:
Had I read the message correctly, I'd have understood immediately that this is a person without empathy or understanding, and likely a troll since statements of this nature are common among them, therefore I would not have wasted time responding to such an individual.
 

theablekingedgar

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
229
A note to others here that are worth bothering with, unlike the troll - I actually somehow misread the troll's post as saying:

"It's just opinions.

People who hate those who hate religion, fuck you. lol.
It's a BELIEF. get over it!"


Thus, I interpreted this as something implying that beliefs are insignificant and harmless, then proceeded to counter this statement with reasons that's untrue.

lol. well bullies get it.
I can do/go where I please. maybe have the grace to accept when you're wrong, or I know you reckon only your favourites can post here or air their thoughts.
 

Mind Maverick

ENTP 8w7 845 Sp/Sx
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,770
I do believe the person is saying one should get over the sensitivity to their beliefs.
I originally misread - but after rereading the original post I didn't interpret it as something about getting over the sensitivity to beliefs, I interpreted it as them being against religion and saying their religion is merely a belief and they should get over it. I suppose that now I think they weren't very clear in their communication.
 

theablekingedgar

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
229
A note to others here that are worth bothering with, unlike the troll - I actually somehow misread the troll's post as saying:

"It's just opinions.

People who hate those who hate religion, fuck you. lol.
It's a BELIEF. get over it!"


Thus, I interpreted this as something implying that beliefs are insignificant and harmless, then proceeded to counter this statement with reasons that's untrue.

EDIT:
Had I read the message correctly, I'd have understood immediately that this is a person without empathy or understanding, and likely a troll since statements of this nature are common among them, therefore I would not have wasted time responding to such an individual.

I just stated an opinion. And it's pretty sound without bigging myself up.
but then you're essentially saying my points are invalid off the bat. This is hardly understanding, is it?
It remains the case that you here are the bully.
I actually posted this since in my experience, people who condemn others for not being religious lack empathy and understanding, as you put it.

- - - Updated - - -

I originally misread - but after rereading the original post I didn't interpret it as something about getting over the sensitivity to beliefs, I interpreted it as them being against religion and saying their religion is merely a belief and they should get over it. I suppose that now I think they weren't very clear in their communication.

My points were in Standard English. Though again, it's you with the agenda here, not me.
 

theablekingedgar

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
229
though it's telling how others can post in the same tone as me, but she doesn't come down on them. but apparently, she's this morally superior character lol. I contend that you are the bully here, and not me. but that's fine, it's amusing. people can choose which "side" what they wish here, I'm not bothered. but then your "friend and chum" here has been so benevolent to comically attack a random dude posting online, and then not even apologised and think she's right despite being so righteous and kind hahaha. #agrandlaugh
 

tony_goth

Pseudo-delusional Rebel
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
225
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
487
Instinctual Variant
sx
equating non-religion to slavery, genocide, etc. is pretty loose.

Agreed. No religion just means "no religious beliefs". And beliefs which prevent slavery or genocide do not have the strict requirement of being religious, but they have at least to be stated clearly and enforced appropriately.

I mean, not believing in the 10 commandments does not mean believing in the 10 inverse commandments, i.e. "do lie, do steal, do kill, do have adultery, etc."

Of course the religious trait of anti-slavery or anti-genocide beliefs may help. This religious trait is just not strictly necessary.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I can understand why people dont like bad religion, I dont really understand why they would dislike good religion too but you get all sorts of people and some do spend too much time preoccupied with what others motives are or what they could be thinking.
From my perspective they not a linear thing, we don’t have good religions v bad religions, we just have religion that contains good and bad, how harmful the bad is determines my dislike. Some of the bad is the shroud of secrecy that facilitates criminal activities, it’s to the side of the religious teachings, some of it is the us v them teachings that can breed hatred and destruction.

I wouldn’t make a claim that religion cannot do good, I think giving a community a place to come together is frequently positive, but I would challenge to identify a good practice that religion does that a secular group/organisation cannot also do. If all the charity, compassion and community strength can exist without religion, then the divisiveness and harm become more important factors. Ofc I’m coming from a perspective of not believing in a deity/deities so see no validity in the teachings in the first place, their footprint on the world around is what I judge. Leave a gentle footprint, keep it out of public policy and i still dislike religion as a concept but I’m really not going to care.
 

SirCanSir

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
92
MBTI Type
hmm
Enneagram
hmm
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Lol this one went downhill. The sensitivity is an issue on both sides. It depends on the culture and environment someone is exposed to to feel repressed by either the religious or the atheists/non believers. Ive seen how it affects both sides and i know there are religious people misunderstood due to the extreme rebellious behavior sometimes the non believers show, completely disrespecting them. Ofc the opposite is prominent but that is well known.

The able king seemed to be showing his frustration about that sensitivity manifesting in religious groups and its understandable but he completely lost his credibility when he went overboard and personally attacked someone who only addressed some other topic because she misunderstood his original post.

There is not much to say about this other than the fact that [MENTION=41391]theablekingedgar[/MENTION] your continuous posts just put more oil to ignite an unnecessary fire. Your viewpoint was valid but you went and made a fool out of yourself by bringing bullying into the table in an exchange between adults. Stop being overdramatic over someone misunderstanding your intent and just explain it.

By making wild middle school - level accusations you dont really prove anything attention-worthy about yourself.
 

theablekingedgar

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
229
I'm over it. I don't think I'm wrong here, when I just made a point and apparently I'm such a baaaaaaaad person with no empathy when she accuser gets off scot-free and then it's all due to "reasoned adults" haha. whatever. we clearly don't like each other, and good. i don't respect anybody who tries to silence me for no good reason. i don't respect people who deny me humanity and rights.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
From my perspective they not a linear thing, we don’t have good religions v bad religions, we just have religion that contains good and bad, how harmful the bad is determines my dislike. Some of the bad is the shroud of secrecy that facilitates criminal activities, it’s to the side of the religious teachings, some of it is the us v them teachings that can breed hatred and destruction.

I wouldn’t make a claim that religion cannot do good, I think giving a community a place to come together is frequently positive, but I would challenge to identify a good practice that religion does that a secular group/organisation cannot also do. If all the charity, compassion and community strength can exist without religion, then the divisiveness and harm become more important factors. Ofc I’m coming from a perspective of not believing in a deity/deities so see no validity in the teachings in the first place, their footprint on the world around is what I judge. Leave a gentle footprint, keep it out of public policy and i still dislike religion as a concept but I’m really not going to care.

I think there's good and bad religion for sure, by saying that I am not passing judgement on central tenets per se, so much as I am behaviour, deeds not words and I think there is a lot more to it than simple communitarianism. The thing is that most of the critics of religion do tend to choose religion at its worst rather than religion at its best and discount any or all of the good that religion has done over historical time. Which I think is unfair but probably understandable given the waves of anti-religious propaganda which have taken place, from a lot of different quarters, and which are almost a tradition all of their own now. It does not help that there is that tendency of some who confronted with wrongs, simply deny them or even reaffirm behaviour which has cause, or contributed, to them.

None of that is by any means restricted to religiosity though, and I think it may be a "fatal conceit" to treat it such, most of the harm associated with bad religion I've seen reproduced, sometimes almost in "refined" fashion, in secular formats. Abuse scandals, cover ups of sexual exploitation of children and vulnerable adults, institutionalized neglect and harm. Its all there and harder often to tackle or confront as it does not have the "bogey man" factor associated with religious beliefs and motivations which does exist in secular/shared cultures. Or the sorts of "self-congratulation" which secular/shared cultures can, and do, frequently engage in, a sort of "look what happens with them, see what they do, we are not like that", which is not a preserve of religious beliefs about "elects", "choosen peoples" or sectarianism.

I can understand someone with a dislike for religion preferring that communitarian, social service, congregating, care, mutual aid are organized, funded, delivered without those aspects. For many years, and occasionally still, there are varieties of religious experience or motives that I dislike too, not even particularly insidious varieties but sincere varieties I just think are extremely ill conceived, serve the worldly needs of individuals, are largely a psychological rationalization if you broke it all down etc. For different reasons other than secularism per se and having more to do with a shared culture I think there should at the very least be pluralism of delivery when it comes to those things.

The only thing I would say is that I've not seen anything quite like religion that can mobilize mutual aid, caring, altruism. A lot of the time secularism and liberalism or other creedos will demand that services or community exist but they do not personally feel duty, obligation or a wish to be the ones who deliver on that demand. I cant think of secular equivalents for religious services, rituals etc. which really operate in the same fashion consistently and do not break down or dissolve in short order or which are unenduring in the way that religion has proven to be. This could be something to do with thinking in terms of historical time though, which is something that almost subconsciously I find religions actually do while their critics do not.
 

theablekingedgar

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
229
Lol this one went downhill. The sensitivity is an issue on both sides. It depends on the culture and environment someone is exposed to to feel repressed by either the religious or the atheists/non believers. Ive seen how it affects both sides and i know there are religious people misunderstood due to the extreme rebellious behavior sometimes the non believers show, completely disrespecting them. Ofc the opposite is prominent but that is well known.

The able king seemed to be showing his frustration about that sensitivity manifesting in religious groups and its understandable but he completely lost his credibility when he went overboard and personally attacked someone who only addressed some other topic because she misunderstood his original post.

There is not much to say about this other than the fact that [MENTION=41391]theablekingedgar[/MENTION] your continuous posts just put more oil to ignite an unnecessary fire. Your viewpoint was valid but you went and made a fool out of yourself by bringing bullying into the table in an exchange between adults. Stop being overdramatic over someone misunderstanding your intent and just explain it.

By making wild middle school - level accusations you dont really prove anything attention-worthy about yourself.

you're also not as intelligent as you profess. why in this case am i the wrong party, when she insulted me? doesn't she have some culpability here, or is it ALL on me? i know she's your friend, but if you're this uber-smart as you profess then perhaps learn to read situations better.
 

Firebird 8118

DJ Phoenix
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
3,123
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
279
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Lol this one went downhill. The sensitivity is an issue on both sides. It depends on the culture and environment someone is exposed to to feel repressed by either the religious or the atheists/non believers. Ive seen how it affects both sides and i know there are religious people misunderstood due to the extreme rebellious behavior sometimes the non believers show, completely disrespecting them. Ofc the opposite is prominent but that is well known.

The able king seemed to be showing his frustration about that sensitivity manifesting in religious groups and its understandable but he completely lost his credibility when he went overboard and personally attacked someone who only addressed some other topic because she misunderstood his original post.

There is not much to say about this other than the fact that [MENTION=41391]theablekingedgar[/MENTION] your continuous posts just put more oil to ignite an unnecessary fire. Your viewpoint was valid but you went and made a fool out of yourself by bringing bullying into the table in an exchange between adults. Stop being overdramatic over someone misunderstanding your intent and just explain it.

By making wild middle school - level accusations you dont really prove anything attention-worthy about yourself.

Honestly, this isn’t the only place where he’s been fanning the flames. It’s quite pathetic, really.

Anyway, thanks for bringing some sanity back. Guy’s been trying to insult, discredit and gaslight anyone who doesn’t agree with him. Even after being put on ignore, he continues to insult others from afar.
 

Red Memories

Haunted Echoes
Joined
Jun 3, 2017
Messages
6,280
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
215
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
you're also not as intelligent as you profess. why in this case am i the wrong party, when she insulted me? doesn't she have some culpability here, or is it ALL on me? i know she's your friend, but if you're this uber-smart as you profess then perhaps learn to read situations better.

Let us assume you are not a troll and in fact are taking all these arguments very poorly. You are the one who originally began acting hostile towards other users here, which has caused people to be hostile towards you. It appears you cannot accept anything besides your own truth. If that is so, it is better to not bring these things up. But you've kind of followed around these users continuing hostility that happened in other threads which could be considered harassment. You should actually stop. Having this level of chip on your shoulder will not make you any friends. Calm down.
 

Mind Maverick

ENTP 8w7 845 Sp/Sx
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,770
Agreed. No religion just means "no religious beliefs". And beliefs which prevent slavery or genocide do not have the strict requirement of being religious, but they have at least to be stated clearly and enforced appropriately.

I mean, not believing in the 10 commandments does not mean believing in the 10 inverse commandments, i.e. "do lie, do steal, do kill, do have adultery, etc."

Of course the religious trait of anti-slavery or anti-genocide beliefs may help. This religious trait is just not strictly necessary.
I mean, I'm not religious either and I rather strongly dislike religion myself and believe it's toxic and has been highly detrimental to society, so I obviously wasn't saying this and he twisted my words. He's done some obvious logic warping there and put words in my mouth.

However, in extreme cases, hating religion does at times result in killing religious people. Obviously it's not always the case, and it is the minority; but my point remains true, hating religion isn't always harmless just as hating non-religion isn't always harmless.
 
Top