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Loving ones enemies?

S

Sniffles

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I brought this up in another thread.

The political theorist Carl Schmitt argued that if one consults the Greek of the Gospels, one finds that Christ's command to love ones enemies reads "diligite inimicos vestros and not "diligite hostes vestros".

In Greek inimicos signifies a private enemy, wheras hostes means a public enemy. So when Christ tells us to love our enemies, he's telling us to love our personal enemies.

This is why, as Schmitt argues, there was no contradiction in Christians waging war against the Muslims with the Gospels because the Muslims represented a public enemy to Christendom.

As Schmitt noted: "The enemy in the political sense need not be hated personally, and in the private sphere only does it make sense to love one's enemy, i.e., one's adversary."

Thoughts?
 
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Valiant

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I generally respect my adversaries. After much steam and ranting I kind of like you, peguy. :D
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

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i struggle greatly with this concept, because it takes quite a bit to make me angry at a person (compared to other ENTJ apparently). so much so that if you have made me angry, prepare yourself for thunderbolts and lightning coz i am going to destroy you :)

however, i think we confuse the 'love of ones enemy' with 'love of the fight' (by we, i mean me, and my alta-ego, RantLord). however, at the same time, there is a level of respect created when someone is will to go up against me (even more so if they can win).

*sigh* i guess hatred is a form of (quite fatal) attraction. we fight because we either have to, or because we want to, and if we want to, we are attracted to those who are willing, worthy, and able to withstand our blows.

so i guess in the end, regardless of whether we 'love' our enemies, there is definitely some close connections formed there.
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

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i wish i could do that,

but if i could, well...i couldn't be as destructive as i am now, coz i love myself waaaaay too much to want to destroy someone like me :p
 

INTJMom

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I am familiar with the concept of "just war"
Catholic Answers: Just War Doctrine
Just War in the Catechism of the Catholic Church
and I know the God of the Old Testament was a God of war,
but I just don't know enough about theology to know if there is any such thing as a just war on this side of the Cross,
though I have heard R. C. Sproul teach it is so, and he is my favorite theologian.
I believe we need to be strong in order to deter bullies;
I just don't see what good has been accomplished from war in my lifetime.

I'm not sure if I agree with Schmitt's assessment of the text. The original Greek word was "echthros" so he must has been referring to the Latin words that could be used to translate the concept into Latin. He's saying they chose a Latin word that referred to a personal enemy rather than an enemy at large. I certainly wouldn't pin all my theology concerning a just war on one scripture like that. I'd want something a little more substantial, since war is of such gravity. Jesus did tell the disciples they would need a sword Luke 22:36, though I believe they were intended for self-defense.
I haven't studied it enough to have a firm opinion.

There are times, I believe, that one nation who is allied with another nation, must aid them in defending against the attack of an enemy, just in the same way that I would help defend someone who is weak against someone who is strong. We don't just stand by and watch people get slaughtered.

I don't believe in wars of aggression.
The war Christians are called to is a spiritual war.
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

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I don't believe in wars of aggression.
The war Christians are called to is a spiritual war.

i feel even more strongly against a 'spiritual war' than an agressive one.

if a war is fought out of agression, it must be caused due to anger...which stems from (usually a wrong doing - a i am not talking about a hitler style 'i don't like you, so you die now' war, but a - 'you came into my country, kicked my dog, and now you are going to die' war.

at least when a war is fought in agression, it is generally fought in the name of 'justice' something i hold, personally, in higher esteem than i think more than anything.

however, when a war is fought in the name of a spiritual god, it suggests said god is saying one nation is better than the other, and so deserves to be attacked. something that disgusts me greatly. it is this mindset that empowers nations like the British to treat others like crap (in colonial times), take their homelands, and sell them into slavery. [mind you, although i am strongly opposed, i know that if it weren't for this occurance, we wouldn't be where we are today, i still don' think it is justified...this of course, leads to another philosophy i struggle to agree with...'the end justifies the means'...]
 

INTJMom

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When I said spiritual, I meant invisible... in the spirit... not in the physical realm.
 

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lol..that makes very little difference to my ranting. i still stand behind everything i say. whatever it was i said...
 

Jack Flak

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Re: OP. It's basically the foundation of Law and the way societies operate, so it's not surprising. "For the good of the people" kind of thing. Do that which advances the tribe, not which deteriorates it.
 

Synarch

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"Personal enemies" could mean anything you hate. Ideas, people, etc. I might even interpret this as a general admonition against the very impulse to hate. I don't really think it would be consistent for Christ to advise to love your enemies and then to hate an aggregate mass of people you are enemies with. I think the entire sermon is an admonition to approach all things with love.
 

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"Personal enemies" could mean anything you hate. Ideas, people, etc. I might even interpret this as a general admonition against the very impulse to hate. I don't really think it would be consistent for Christ to advise to love your enemies and then to hate an aggregate mass of people you are enemies with. I think the entire sermon is an admonition to approach all things with love.

to what end...*ponders*

if one loves ones enemies they are...compassionate towards them...

so...the point is to approach with love, so that we deal with our enemies with compassion? is that what others are thinking? thats the conclusion i draw in my mind anyway
 

kyuuei

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I think it makes a lot of sense.. I had struggled with that concept, and yet at church they had taught me (I, at the time, was worried about my going into the service.) that murder is wrong.. but killing is not. Example: A policeman doing his duty would not be damned for taking the life of a dangerous man.

... It would make much more sense in general for the christian teachings to mean personal enemies.
 

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so because the policeman approaches with concern (for the general public) he approaches the dangerous wo/man with compassion, (further backed up by the point that to shoot is the last resort). nor does he 'hate' the dangerous person, he is...just doing his job...which is to care for the general public

[sorry to have to rephrase it all...i just have to do that to work it out in my mind, what we are actually saying...am i correct so far?]
 

Thursday

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" there is no you, there is only me "
and i don't wish to fight with myself
 

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*sigh* see i struggle with that slightly, coz there is a YOU, and there is a ME

just coz my theory states there is no you, doesn't mean YOU don't exist...

am i missing some integral key to the philosophy?
 

Thursday

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*sigh* see i struggle with that slightly, coz there is a YOU, and there is a ME

just coz my theory states there is no you, doesn't mean YOU don't exist...

am i missing some integral key to the philosophy?

yes
its a higher form of control
realizing that you can only control your reaction and action - not others
as such - you race yourself

all in all - you are the common denominator in all of your successes and failures.
" there is no you, there is only me "
 

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ok, i can understand that, but just coz i only ultimately control my own actions, and as such, i am only responsible for my own actions, that doesn't mean i don't have an element of control over anothers actions.

just like we can anticipate each others actions, and so respond in a manner that motivates a reaction in a certain direction.

i think what i am trying to say is we directally control ourselves, and indirectally are capable of controlling our enemies, and i think that is the root of my problem with that statement [even tho i agree its a great 'philosophy', i can see it being nothing more than just that, a THEORY]
 

Thursday

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hmm - yes - we do have influence over everyone's actions if we know what we're doing
yay Se
 

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i guess the theory still applies, with a small amount of tweaking.

we have to establish that we do have an influence, and as such, we are in control of ourselves enough to 1) either not use it, or 2) not use it against our opponent.

however, that is alot harder to justify, as that is basically putting down your gun, and walking into the gun battle with nothing but fists...if you know what i mean.

in the end, it would mean that you would only be walking away from the real fight, which is, at times, the sign of the stronger man. *ponders* perhaps that is the key,

in order to win, you have to be stronger, and to be stronger, you have to walk away, and to be able to walk away, you have to not win, and to not win you have to put down your best weapon, and that mean self-control when it comes to positioning others...

...rofl...quite a long winded theory if you ask me.
 
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