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Loving ones enemies?

Thursday

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the long-slow good-byes usually are
and if we make it about win or lose - then we lose automatically
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

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well then, all we have to pray for is that the other makes it win-lose also, then we have to come out a draw, right?
 

Thursday

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well then, all we have to pray for is that the other makes it win-lose also, then we have to come out a draw, right?

if you accept it as such...sure
but i am not sure of the outcome of that....and stuff
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

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bahaha, hmmm, i don't support it either,

nor would i ever be happy with a draw, its either win or loose, not fussed with which, however winning is always favorable :)
 

Thursday

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bahaha, hmmm, i don't support it either,

nor would i ever be happy with a draw, its either win or loose, not fussed with which, however winning is always favorable :)

uh huh
draw - thats called inaction and apathy - eww
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

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uh huh
draw - thats called inaction and apathy - eww

thats called NOT RESOLVED!

if one concedes to a draw, one walks away feeling equal, but doesn't know where one should stand on a topic of debate.

"we draw, but we have differing views, WHO IS CORRECT?"

both of us? don't like the sound of that,

i like plain and simple resolution, the answer is given and established through winning, and we all go home knowing where we stand :) (one person under the foot of the other :p)
 

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probably, but i guess for a different reason...

i think more detail is needed...perhaps elaborate your point a little further?
 

MadamI'madaM

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i think more detail is needed...perhaps elaborate your point a little further?

I'm an empty shell who cracks wise to forget the void. (I'm from INTPc)

but really, it means that I don't interact enough to have real enemies and that I don't have it in me to just stop answering the phone or go all fugue on their asses
 

MadamI'madaM

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ok, but how does that relate to hating on your enemies?

lots and lots of people don't have traditional enemies, and I was trying to demonstrate the opposite inflection of interpersonal irony

isn't it odd how some apparently revere their enemies underneath jealousy and some resent their compatriots underneath habit or convenience?
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

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i guess you are right, and i think this demonstrates that we not only control our opponent, but are as equally controlled...
 

Hirsch63

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I believe that we have here two different subjects. The first would seem to be validated by the words of Jesus regarding his Kingdom of God program. These writings seem to emphasize personal interactions on an immediate level, as does Mosiac law. What can you do here and now to help the poor and suffering and prevent discord in your community. External "enemies" or oppression is to be either ignored or complied with to the extent practical for peaceful living. But it asks for something beyond mere tolerance; it requires that a person's position relative to you be carefully considered. Love my enemy? Why? How does that help me? Like many of the sayings of Jesus it is (at first) counter-intuitive.

The second subject regarding the actions of the church seeks to apply legalistic self justification to the actions of this corporate entity. To the extent that humans have a history of twisting the meaning of philosophies to the ends of greed and fear the church (which is not part of the Kingdom of God movement) can certainly cite this saying as it chooses. Christendom or the church at this time is the most powerful entity in the western world. It's actions and interests are political and economic on a sweeping geographical scale. What the church does and says is really not concerned with what Jesus actually meant but how it can help them achieve control and protect their investments. At this stage in history (the crusades) the church is no more about the teachings of Jesus than a giant waterfall is about the bubbling spring at it's source.

So it seems both interpretations can be "true"...however actually unrelated.
 

phoenix13

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I brought this up in another thread.

The political theorist Carl Schmitt argued that if one consults the Greek of the Gospels, one finds that Christ's command to love ones enemies reads "diligite inimicos vestros and not "diligite hostes vestros".

In Greek inimicos signifies a private enemy, wheras hostes means a public enemy. So when Christ tells us to love our enemies, he's telling us to love our personal enemies.

This is why, as Schmitt argues, there was no contradiction in Christians waging war against the Muslims with the Gospels because the Muslims represented a public enemy to Christendom.

As Schmitt noted: "The enemy in the political sense need not be hated personally, and in the private sphere only does it make sense to love one's enemy, i.e., one's adversary."

Thoughts?

It's dangerous to draw conclusions from what is NOT said, and especially in a document as old as the gospels (there are historical and cultural factors that can further cloud the meaning). This just sounds like an extension of attempts to reconcile the God of the old testament vs Jesus (where Yah_eh destroys Israel's enemies, and Jesus is all about the love... roughly). It does not make sense to only love your private enemies... it doesn't fit with anything I've read of Jesus.

EDIT: I'm intentionally overlooking what Jesus meant by "love"... that's a whole other discussion.
 
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