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  1. #1

    Default American Civic Religion: Americanism, the religion for the secular American

    When you separate Church and State, the State becomes the Church. This is all very obvious if you already practice a traditional religion, in my case Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Due to the nature of American Christianity (puritan Calvinism) being sterilized of any symbols, deep meanings, a sense of deep history, and traditions they are willing to acknowledge, American Christians flock to Americanism to fill in the gaps. This can be seen by the Evangelical Protestant rejection of Roman Catholic statuary, but will make a pilgrimage to see Mt. Rushmore, Ellis Island, or Washington DC to see the Lincoln Monument making those the objects of acceptable idolatry. Their unshakable faith in Trump being their God-ordained "Messiah" is another example of this. Many Americans are suffering from a deep cognitive dissonance in this regard.

    This can be seen during election years past and present. I believe the Politics section was closed for a year due to the almost fanatical verbal conflicts that were occurring on a regular basis. This can be seen in real-time as these conflicts manifest themselves with several larger cities being the battlegrounds for quasi-religious conflict to erupt as their generals announce the field of battle on social media while the retaliating forces meet them. Often times, the police forces of the cities will be allied with one side or another. All of this due to a Sola-Scriptura-esque reading and interpretation of the Founding documents, seen as an almost Holy Scripture: The Constitution, being read with differing opinions as the political-religious denominations are fighting for control of the nation. This is all very fascinating as an outside observer.



    ...and for a more in-depth discussion on the topic:
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  2. #2
    ᎮᎥᒐցяᎥ๓ Luminous's Avatar
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    Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.

    No.

    Your basic premise is wrong. While some Americans do what you say, many don't. It is not necessary for the state to become a church. It is not necessary to have a church.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    While some Americans do what you say, many don't.
    I agree. There seems to be a sort of “Reformation” afoot as to what it means to be an American between those whom want to conserve the Enlightenment Liberal ideals which formed this propositional nation and those whom would like to progress that nation further into an ideal as yet undetermined.

    It is not necessary for the state to become a church.
    Although, this is an expressed ideal, in practice it doesn’t actually hold up due to Man’s inherent religious nature and his tendency to create cultural traditions/“religions” out of anything conceivable, and that would include politics.

    Thank you for your contribution.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member asynartetic's Avatar
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    I always got that impression, when visiting DC, that places like the Lincoln Memorial and Jefferson Memorial almost felt like temples to American demigods. We're not all that unlike the pre-Christian romans, who would proclaim emperors to be divine.

  5. #5
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin of Flavia Neapolis View Post
    Although, this is an expressed ideal, in practice it doesn’t actually hold up due to Man’s inherent religious nature and his tendency to create cultural traditions/“religions” out of anything conceivable, and that would include politics.
    The fact that the state will not function as a church does not preclude actual churches and other faith centers from doing so. I suspect most Americans satisfy the need for church/religion within their actual faith community. The stripped-down aesthetics of certain Protestant denominations says nothing about other denominations, Christian and otherwise, nor does it preclude their followers from finding deep symbolic and spiritual meaning in something other than the physical trappings of their church.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thestralis View Post
    The fact that the state will not function as a church does not preclude actual churches and other faith centers from doing so. I suspect most Americans satisfy the need for church/religion within their actual faith community. The stripped-down aesthetics of certain Protestant denominations says nothing about other denominations, Christian and otherwise, nor does it preclude their followers from finding deep symbolic and spiritual meaning in something other than the physical trappings of their church.
    I'm afraid the point is being lost, so I'll place a word of scripture here:

    On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
    Your argument is more about trees whereas mine being about forest.

    So, the point wasn't that they derive no spirituality from their respective sects whatsoever, but that many American Christians today are what are called: "Nominal Christians" according to the sample sizes in the Pew Research. A lot of their (nominal Christians) identities being developed around things like sports, politics, or even a TV series, in practice, while if you ask them they would say something to effect of "Sure, I believe in Jesus. No, I don't go to church on Sunday. Yes, I celebrate Christmas." And this is what makes up the bulk of the so-called "Christian Nation" that is so often touted by the "Right." The actual religious Evangelicals are the minority according to comparative samples. Many of the nominal Christians ultimately end up being non-believers/atheists, or very strong agnostics/deists, anyway.

    But, this thread isn't to discuss American Christianity, but rather Americanism.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    I always got that impression, when visiting DC, that places like the Lincoln Memorial and Jefferson Memorial almost felt like temples to American demigods. We're not all that unlike the pre-Christian romans, who would proclaim emperors to be divine.
    Dead Prez
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  8. #8
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin of Flavia Neapolis View Post
    I'm afraid the point is being lost, so I'll place a word of scripture here:



    Your argument is more about trees whereas mine being about forest.

    So, the point wasn't that they derive no spirituality from their respective sects whatsoever, but that many American Christians today are what are called: "Nominal Christians" according to the sample sizes in the Pew Research. A lot of their (nominal Christians) identities being developed around things like sports, politics, or even a TV series, in practice, while if you ask them they would say something to effect of "Sure, I believe in Jesus. No, I don't go to church on Sunday. Yes, I celebrate Christmas." And this is what makes up the bulk of the so-called "Christian Nation" that is so often touted by the "Right." The actual religious Evangelicals are the minority according to comparative samples. Many of the nominal Christians ultimately end up being non-believers/atheists, or very strong agnostics/deists, anyway.

    But, this thread isn't to discuss American Christianity, but rather Americanism.
    Your initial point seemed to blame this situation on the separation between church and state. That point was not made. If, as the highlighted suggests, you acknowledge that Americans derive spiritual benefit from their religious traditions, I am not sure how that ties into the statement that they are in fact only "nominal Christians".

    Bottom line: though your observations have merit, I have no idea what point you are trying to make with them.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thestralis View Post
    Your initial point seemed to blame this situation on the separation between church and state. That point was not made. If, as the highlighted suggests, you acknowledge that Americans derive spiritual benefit from their religious traditions, I am not sure how that ties into the statement that they are in fact only "nominal Christians".

    Bottom line: though your observations have merit, I have no idea what point you are trying to make with them.
    Asynartetic got it. Read his post.
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