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  1. #21
    ˚*•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙* ˚* Luminous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    Of course, this is exactly why I started with "this isn't simple as this thread wants it to be".
    However my choice was eventually for "anger/hate", since I am not sure 100% how to name this in English (the hate based anger). Since if this gets truly out of hand and manifested the other emotions can't match the practical horror. It is true that anger/hate is more of methodology than a starting point but when it goes out of hand there will be irreversible and bad consequences for sure. It is the emotion that directly claimed more lives than any other for sure.
    Interesting observation, I think: Virtual Ghost, you're thinking differences in approaching the question are due to life experiences. I wonder how much might be due to instinctual variants. As an sx/sp, I'm much more finely tuned and focused on myself and my small circle. I agree with you about hateful anger, but I took the question more as which feeling is worst for me to personally internally experience. And not which is most externally destructive.
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇᴇʟꜱ★
    * ・゚ ・゚ * ⊱9w1✶S✶2w1✶X✶5w6⊰ * ・゚ ・゚ *
    ✦Շђєяє คяє ๓σяє тнιηﻭѕ ιη нєανєη αη∂ єαятн Շђαη คяє ∂яєαмт σƒ ιη уσυя ρнιℓσѕσρну.✦

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Well, yes, I have felt lonely surrounded by the wrong kind of people, but I can even more easily feel no loneliness when completely alone. People of any kind are not necessary to dispel or avoid that feeling. If anything, they usually prompt other feelings that are worse.
    That sort of loneliness around people is something I dont think I've experienced since my teens. Its something I associate with that time or age and stage of development rather.

    The sorts of loneliness I think people experience later in life is different, at least it is for me.

    More often than not I cant get enough solitude or time by myself, any time I think I've found it or could have it then there's people. Just look at any of those pictures people share online of tourist expectations versus reality, like they show a tourist site with just one or two people there, better yet totally deserted, then they show the reality of a site overcrowded with a complete throng of people.

    Plus I've witnessed how completely and utterly awful people are in groups too, their normal behaviour seems to be totally suspended and they can act in the ugliest and stupidest ways. Never underestimate the stupidity of people in groups isnt just a quote for coasters and bookmarks. Then there's just how easily people are persuaded of gossip or manipulated, all of that, it doesnt make company an appealing prospect.

    Now, consider that insight if you're someone who socially inclined or extroverted, its a nightmare. At least as bad as introversion and the challenges they face.

  3. #23
    Primal evil Sung Jin-Woo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Well, yes, I have felt lonely surrounded by the wrong kind of people, but I can even more easily feel no loneliness when completely alone. People of any kind are not necessary to dispel or avoid that feeling. If anything, they usually prompt other feelings that are worse.
    The loneliness I feel is intense, and nothing amends it for me. Not people, not even people I get along with. Being alone of my own choice isn't as bad, but the moment I realized I've not had meaningful contact with someone crushes me. Its like drinking water to satiate a thirst, but the water makes you more thirsty. Sometimes I just won't drink.

    It does breed other emotions, such as self-loathing or hatred. But its loneliness at its core. I don't think many can comprehend this feeling, without having been in true isolation. I've been like this for a long time. There is just an involuntary disconnect between people and I. If one cannot form a relationship on an emotional level, then does it even exist? Imagine knowing you don't actually have emotional ties to the people you love, you just rationalize that you do. Convincing yourself of obligation and duty. It doesn't feel good, and you begin to doubt youre even capable of love, or friendship.
    “An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way.”
    Charles Bukowski

  4. #24
    Moderator Yuu's Avatar
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    I think it’s subjectivme but probably feeling alone.

    Especially when you get to hear-everyday-a hundred Goddamned people parroting “ I’m so unique, no one gets me!“ in their cliquey little group which is constantly together, supporting and reaffirming each other while you stand on the outside screaming that you exist only to completely ignored because you aren’t allowed to be unique or misunderstood because you don’t fit in.

    Yaay society!
    " Do something, even if it's wrong."

    " I don't wanna have to but I will, if that's what I'm supposed to do
    We don't wanna set up for the kill, but that's what I'm 'bout to do."

  5. #25
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebris View Post
    The loneliness I feel is intense, and nothing amends it for me. Not people, not even people I get along with. Being alone of my own choice isn't as bad, but the moment I realized I've not had meaningful contact with someone crushes me. Its like drinking water to satiate a thirst, but the water makes you more thirsty. Sometimes I just won't drink.

    It does breed other emotions, such as self-loathing or hatred. But its loneliness at its core. I don't think many can comprehend this feeling, without having been in true isolation. I've been like this for a long time. There is just an involuntary disconnect between people and I. If one cannot form a relationship on an emotional level, then does it even exist? Imagine knowing you don't actually have emotional ties to the people you love, you just rationalize that you do. Convincing yourself of obligation and duty. It doesn't feel good, and you begin to doubt youre even capable of love, or friendship.
    I think we may be experiencing something similar, but reacting toward it differently. For me, contact that isn't meaningful is usually worse than no contact at all. I can go quite happily without contact for long periods. In fact, I often prefer it. I agree that relationships require an emotional connection, at least personal ones (I am excluding professional, business, and utilitarian relationships here). Overall I feel I have emotional ties to very few people, but I wouldn't describe those relationships as love. Honestly, I don't know if I am capable of love. I don't think in those terms. I don't use that word, ever, partly because I don't know what I would mean by it. I explain my feelings for someone in more detail when appropriate. I do make and keep commitments, which involves emotion as well as personal values, but directed more at myself in the sense of being true to myself. I generally find that fulfilling, though, not constraining, but then these commitments are always made and maintained freely, out of my own desires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That sort of loneliness around people is something I dont think I've experienced since my teens. Its something I associate with that time or age and stage of development rather.

    The sorts of loneliness I think people experience later in life is different, at least it is for me.

    More often than not I cant get enough solitude or time by myself, any time I think I've found it or could have it then there's people. Just look at any of those pictures people share online of tourist expectations versus reality, like they show a tourist site with just one or two people there, better yet totally deserted, then they show the reality of a site overcrowded with a complete throng of people.
    I hardly ever experience that sort of loneliness now either, but then I don't often find myself around the sort of groups that bring it out. I think I am also more inured to it than when I was younger and still in school. Even more secure in myself as a person, and less affected by such external influences. The highlighted is true of me as well.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #26
    Primal evil Sung Jin-Woo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I think we may be experiencing something similar, but reacting toward it differently. For me, contact that isn't meaningful is usually worse than no contact at all. I can go quite happily without contact for long periods. In fact, I often prefer it. I agree that relationships require an emotional connection, at least personal ones (I am excluding professional, business, and utilitarian relationships here). Overall I feel I have emotional ties to very few people, but I wouldn't describe those relationships as love. Honestly, I don't know if I am capable of love. I don't think in those terms. I don't use that word, ever, partly because I don't know what it means. I explain my feelings for someone in more detail when appropriate. I do make and keep commitments, which involves emotion as well as personal values, but directed more at myself in the sense of being true to myself. I generally find that fulfilling, though, not constraining, but then these commitments are always made and maintained freely, out of my own desires.
    Yeah, I think I try to seek out meaningful contact instead of waiting for it to come to me. So I will partake in meaningless contact. I feel that I have gotten good at making the best of all contacts I have, but it isn't enough I think. My inability to feel emotional connections is pretty consistent. I might have them, I just don't know I do. This might create a problem. I also don't know how I feel about love, and am too, unsure of its definition. Which is why I struggle to say it at times. Commitments are difficult for me, but I think I am consistent about it. But I don't really feel they are significant for me. I see them as just standard human behavior, that everyone should be able to do. It doesn't feel fulfilling for me at all.
    “An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way.”
    Charles Bukowski

  7. #27
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    Interesting observation, I think: Virtual Ghost, you're thinking differences in approaching the question are due to life experiences. I wonder how much might be due to instinctual variants. As an sx/sp, I'm much more finely tuned and focused on myself and my small circle. I agree with you about hateful anger, but I took the question more as which feeling is worst for me to personally internally experience. And not which is most externally destructive.

    Yeah I am the opposite of you in many typological ways but that is irrelevant since around me there are Sx/Sp people that are more like me. This is exactly why there is a thread about how much political realities can remake typology.


    If you and your circle are on the receiving end of this toxic duo then you will quickly realize that the world isn't just about you or your circle. Which is exactly why this can't really be fully understood if you weren't on the receiving side of this (or providing side for that matter). Since war zone means that you can call 911 as much as you like but they can't solve your problem since they don't have equipment for this problem, not to mention that they are first to be targeted by invaders. Also many people like to hide behind money but if things go really south money becomes useless. If a missile hits a local supermarket and destroys it while killing everyone inside you can no longer shop there. You can have billions but you can't even buy a bottle of Coke or a pound of carrots. So as shooting continues everyone become unemployed quickly and many start to lose parts of their circle to shooting. Plus if the country gets overrun your money will never restore value and even if your house doesn't get blown up there is a question if you will be able to own it, since this is now a different country with new constitution and laws.


    In other words this caries such amount of shock that no one involved will ever be fully the same person again. They will probably recover with time but they will never see the world as static then before being a part in this kind of mess. I often don't want it but my posting simply spills into this, since my starting premises are different than those of others that hang out here. Since no other emotion can create this in practical sense ....







    I don't want to privatize suffering and horror in this thread but I really do think that situations that are fully reduced to anger and hate are the worse there is by objective standards. Exactly since the consequences are so concrete.

  8. #28
    ˚*•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙* ˚* Luminous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    Yeah I am the opposite of you in many typological ways but that is irrelevant since around me there are Sx/Sp people that are more like me. This is exactly why there is a thread about how much political realities can remake typology.


    If you and your circle are on the receiving end of this toxic duo then you will quickly realize that the world isn't just about you or your circle. Which is exactly why this can't really be fully understood if you weren't on the receiving side of this (or providing side for that matter). Since war zone means that you can call 911 as much as you like but they can't solve your problem since they don't have equipment for this problem, not to mention that they are first to be targeted by invaders. Also many people like to hide behind money but if things go really south money becomes useless. If a missile hits a local supermarket and destroys it while killing everyone inside you can no longer shop there. You can have billions but you can't even buy a bottle of Coke or a pound of carrots. So as shooting continues everyone become unemployed quickly and many start to lose parts of their circle to shooting. Plus if the country gets overrun your money will never restore value and even if your house doesn't get blown up there is a question if you will be able to own it, since this is now a different country with new constitution and laws.


    In other words this caries such amount of shock that no one involved will ever be fully the same person again. They will probably recover with time but they will never see the world as static then before being a part in this kind of mess. I often don't want it but my posting simply spills into this, since my starting premises are different than those of others that hang out here. Since no other emotion can create this in practical sense ....







    I don't want to privatize suffering and horror in this thread but I really do think that situations that are fully reduced to anger and hate are the worse there is by objective standards. Exactly since the consequences are so concrete.
    I never said it was. However, MY world is MY own life and MY own circle. I am naturally more focused on what is happening to me personally. And so are you.

    I was answering the question from a personal standpoint. Not an objective standpoint. Why shouldn't I answer for myself? I do not experience hateful anger that would cause me to commit horrible acts. I have, however, experienced other painful emotions.
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇᴇʟꜱ★
    * ・゚ ・゚ * ⊱9w1✶S✶2w1✶X✶5w6⊰ * ・゚ ・゚ *
    ✦Շђєяє คяє ๓σяє тнιηﻭѕ ιη нєανєη αη∂ єαятн Շђαη คяє ∂яєαмт σƒ ιη уσυя ρнιℓσѕσρну.✦

  9. #29
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    I never said it was. However, MY world is MY own life and MY own circle. I am naturally more focused on what is happening to me personally. And so are you.

    I was answering the question from a personal standpoint. Not an objective standpoint. Why shouldn't I answer for myself? I do not experience hateful anger that would cause me to commit horrible acts. I have, however, experienced other painful emotions.

    Ok, but there is no need to get so defensive about this. You said "I wonder" and I have interpreted that as a personal question.

  10. #30
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    I think there are other more pain based emotions than loneliness.

    Its probably more closely connected to psychosomatic symptom or reaction formation in my view. Like its a "bad emotion" because it literally makes you ill and impairs your normal functioning. Its something more than or different to simply suffering, which is unpleasant, difficult and adverse but livable if that makes sense.

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