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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucieCat View Post
    I always understood "secular" as meaning "apart from religion." So it's hard to see the ideology of "secular leftism" as a religion. I could be wrong though. I'm not exactly sure where I get my definition of secular.
    I know that some of the very early socialists, like the followers of Saint Simon, this other guy, I think may have been called Wesley but I'm not sure (Engels wrote about him in an essay comparing socialism/communism with early Christianity I think), used to go on about their ideas/socialism being "Christianity as a secular religion".

    So far as I know what they meant by that was Christianity without God, the afterlife or any trace of metaphysics, supernatural or miraculous aspects. Johnny Cash actually appears to reference it in the song The Wanderer when he says goes someplace "were the people like to sit, they want to Kingdom, but they dont want God in it".

    Its not such a strange idea as biographies of the "historical Jesus" were popular about that time in France and America, so far as I know, Jefferson wrote a version of the bible which was meant to be the book without the "superstition" or "supernatural" aspect.

    Although the whole thing about some sort of "secular leftism" is that does it imply there's a "non-secular" leftism too? Then what is that?

    Like I posted before the whole thread strikes me as nothing really besides an excuse to trash religion and left wing politics? Why? Well, the OP probably doesnt like either for the same reasons.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Most people have fought hard to throw Christianity out of everything?

    How so?

    I'm pretty sure that the golden rule isnt the worst thing that have been bequeathed by history, things might be different in the US, the way the tele-evangelism combines with the poor education system or something, but religosity, when its not sectarian hatred, is unlikely to be in the top five pressing problems facing the world.
    I'm not saying every nation does it, I'm saying particularly in America, the secularist fought to have prayer yanked from schools, to the point where you can't even really wear religious imagery in a public school, and they teach religion from a standpoint of nitpicking. they claim God is sexist, homophobic, etc. In Canada they were pushing to not allow certain parts of the Bible to be read because of this take. So I find it almost humoring actually to see someone show how they are following somewhat something they despise, is more my directive with my comment. XD

  3. #73
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hummingbird Spirit View Post
    I'm not saying every nation does it, I'm saying particularly in America, the secularist fought to have prayer yanked from schools, to the point where you can't even really wear religious imagery in a public school, and they teach religion from a standpoint of nitpicking. they claim God is sexist, homophobic, etc. In Canada they were pushing to not allow certain parts of the Bible to be read because of this take. So I find it almost humoring actually to see someone show how they are following somewhat something they despise, is more my directive with my comment. XD
    You may want to include the fact that we have a vigorous constitutional amendment in the US that addresses this and the reasons for resolute policy maintaining the separation of church and state. Many other countries don't. Religious freedom allows the individual to have choice. That doesn't include institutions that serve the public, also granted that same freedom. This is not nitpicking. No one is trampling your rights to religion, to attend houses of worship or reading a bible, no matter how much that is claimed.

    And frankly, people that have issues with living in a secular nation, which this one has been since Day 1, have every right to go find a theocracy they would prefer to live in.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  4. #74
    Junior Member mirkers's Avatar
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    My thought exactly. Just if something is a political movement that doesn't mean it is religion.

  5. #75
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    No



  6. #76
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    Secular and religion are mutually exclusive.

  7. #77
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    What is "secular leftism"? How is it defined?

    Without proper definitions, you can't have a proper discussion.

    I know what secularism is, and the term "leftism" is often used to describe political ideology but the OP seems to be using "secular leftism" to mean "PC culture" and I think this is kind of a narrow use of the terms "secular" and "leftism".

    So I don't know what to make of this thread...

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polka View Post
    Secular and religion are mutually exclusive.
    I think that secularism as a philosphy can have some cult-like followers too in some cases.

    So while I agree that secularism is not a religion, it can certainly lead to dogmatism and ideology in some cases, which are negative traits often ascribed to religion.

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    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Accepted Jesus Christ as one's personal lord and savior/Saved

    Socially enlightened

  10. #80
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    A believer

    Woke

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