how do we learn morals

[passingby]

Is religion or God really needed to know morals? Where does morality come from? I'd like to know what everyone thinks

 

[nolla]

Is religion or God really needed to know morals? Where does morality come from?

I give credit to religions for reminding it is good to be good. But I don't think religion is necessary for morals. I actually think there is some "animal" morality in each of us. Morals are instinctual rules that have a lot to do with keeping the tribe functional.

I'd like to know what everyone thinks

This, I can't help you with.

 

[disregard]

"Humanity will find in itself the strength to live for virtue even without believing in the immortality of the soul! It will find it in love of liberty, of equality, of fraternity." --Rakitin, The Brothers Karamazov

Sums up my position on the matter.

 

[lane777]

A short video from a Christian perspective that talks about this:

GodTube.com - Paul Washer "All men are born evil"

Even if you're not a Christian, the vid may still give you some interesting insights/perspective. Point to ponder: A child needs to be taught to share, be respectful, say please and thank-you etc. it does not come naturally. However, a child does not need to be taught to be selfish, cruel, and rude... we know how to be this way from birth.

 

[Wade Wilson]

Interesting topic... for some reason, after reading it I immediately thought about Ed Gein. A serial killer who most assuredly lacked societies idea of morality due to an abusive Christian mother who used the bible to instill fear and misogyny in him as discipline.

I guess I feel it depends on an individuals mental state as well as how we're taught to regard the world around us by the people who are supposed to guide us. Without someone to instill those morals, people are left to run unchecked from an early age.

Now in a healthy mind, of course, they will still be able to function even without the presence of a mentor because they will absorb these morals from the world around them.

 

[SillySapienne]

A short video from a Christian perspective that talks about this:

GodTube.com - Paul Washer "All men are born evil"

Even if you're not a Christian, the vid may still give you some interesting insights/perspective. Point to ponder: A child needs to be taught to share, be respectful, say please and thank-you etc. it does not come naturally or instinctively. However, a child does not need to be taught to be selfish, cruel, and rude... we know how to be this way from birth.

No, absolutely not!!!

Sure, I think some people are inherently predisposed to be more moral and empathetic than others, but that most people are somewhere in the middle being both relatively kind and selfish.

However, to say or believe that all men are born evil?!!?!?

Any man who would think this, I fear, would necessarily be projecting *his own evil tendencies* upon all of mankind.

This is why 90% of preachers get an enthusiastic thumbs down from me.

People can learn to act in an appropriate way but that does not mean that their actions are well-intentioned. Hence, morality is innate, and ethical behavior is learned

 

[Metamorphosis]

fear of punishment

it's like learning not to touch fire

 

[Magic Poriferan]

While the specifics of what people define as good or bad varies from person to person, and in broader patterns, from group to group, some degree of morality is an inherent thing. It is a product of evolution, which exists for social purposes, which is unsurprising since human beings clearly ran down the path of a social species in so many other regards.

So, if nothing else, you can note that reciprocity is a central ethical rule in every culture. It is the simplest, most basic ethic, and might well have been the first we ever had. By my understanding, things like that will not go away with changes in society such what the common religious belief is. It does not really matter what church or country says, or whether or not the institutions of church or country even exist, because people have inborn ethics that are further developed by personal experieces which do not require direct teaching from others.

 

[SillySapienne]

fear of punishment

Don't you think (asshole) people learn to *act* ethically for fear of punishment, but that they do not learn how to *be* moral, per se, but rather they learn how to be more cunning?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

fear of punishment

it's like learning not to touch fire

Fear of punishment. Want of reward. The main thing to note is that these rewards and punishments do not all come from an tangible, outside source. People do these things to themselves. They fear shame and guilt, for instance. People fear their own moral judgment.

 

[Metamorphosis]

Don't you think (asshole) people learn to *act* ethically for fear of punishment, but that they do not learn how to *be* moral, per se, but rather they learn how to be more cunning?

How is this different from any other person?

Morals are good because they benefit society, not because they "just are." Going against most moral values results in one of two things: punishment by the government, or social exclusion

They fear shame and guilt, for instance. People fear their own moral judgment.

Because they are told that these things are bad. A devout christian will feel guilty after using profanity or having premarital sex. Does everyone, though?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Because they are told that these things are bad. A devout christian will feel guilty after using profanity or having premarital sex. Does everyone, though?

No, not everyone feels bad about that, specifically. Rest assured, though, that everyone has something they would feel bad about, and they have their own personal reason for accepting it as a reasonable guideline. People claim they are following what they are told a lot more often than they really are. Most people follow their own little personal creations, which they attribute to someone else's authority. It's something that's often sub-conscious, though.

 

[SillySapienne]

Meta:

But the government condones some immoral behavior!!!

Just because a majority or an authority says something is wrong or right doesn't make it necessarily so, right?

I believe that morals and moralistic behavior are intrinsically motivated.

I also think that guilt is oftentimes founded, i.e. that we feel guilty when we act shitty.

People who blindly follow a litany of moral prescriptive "truths" scare me.

I also know that I may be projecting here, but, personally, I develop a sense of right and wrong by way of empathy.

Also, have you ever been punished for actually doing the *right* thing?!?! I have, and that sucks. :sad:

Moral universalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Neo Genesis]

Is religion or God really needed to know morals?

I'm assuming you're not asking whether we believe morals would exist without religion. Some people need direction (religion or God) in their lives, whereas others absolutely resent it. This has nothing to do with intelligence either, imo. Its simply how some people are wired. Some may contemplate and follow their own ethical ideals, but the belief that their God follows a similar path gives them confidence and structure. Others don't like being told what to do/be.

To understand religious morals, I'd think religion would be vitally important.

Where does morality come from?

From within.

 

[SillySapienne]

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg

 

[Magic Poriferan]

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg

False. You don't need religion, you just need any kind of philosophy, preferably passed down from an authority and adopted by the masses. It could be religious, or political, or cultural. It doesn't really make a difference.

Also, why does that quote leave out evil people doing good things?

 

[Didums]

Is religion or God really needed to know morals? Where does morality come from? I'd like to know what everyone thinks

If it comes from anywhere, its definitely not religion.

"In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlates with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies." (Journal of Religion and Society reported in The Times, Sep 27 2005)

Found that in this vid: [youtube=94f2h-5TvbM] Religion, Atheism, and Morality [/youtube]

Fastforward to 4:40ish for the explanation of where morality comes from. Its not the say-all, but I agree with him and its the stance I take.

 

[Jack Flak]

False. You don't need religion, you just any kind of philosophy, preferably passed down from an authority and adopted by the masses. It could be religious, or political, or cultural. It doesn't really make a difference.

*scratches head, and other things* Huh? Why does that make it valid?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

*scratches head, and other things* Huh? Why does that make it valid?

Errrm... did you read my comment in the context of the post I quoted? I guess I'm not sure what you mean by valid.

To clarify, I was saying that philosophy that is dictated by an authority, and accepted by masses, is more likely to result in and give justification to "evil" acts. There are a number of reasons for that, which I can attempt to explain if you wish.

 

[Metamorphosis]

No, not everyone feels bad about that, specifically. Rest assured, though, that everyone has something they would feel bad about, and they have their own personal reason for accepting it as a reasonable guideline. People claim they are following what they are told a lot more often than they really are. Most people follow their own little personal creations, which they attribute to someone else's authority. It's something that's often sub-conscious, though.

Meta:

But the government condones some immoral behavior!!!

Just because a majority or an authority says something is wrong or right doesn't make it necessarily so, right?

I believe that morals and moralistic behavior are intrinsically motivated.

I also think that guilt is oftentimes founded, i.e. that we feel guilty when we act shitty.

People who blindly follow a litany of moral prescriptive "truths" scare me.

I also know that I may be projecting here, but, personally, I develop a sense of right and wrong by way of empathy.

Also, have you ever been punished for actually doing the *right* thing?!?! I have, and that sucks. :sad:

Moral universalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So if morals aren't the same for everyone, and their purpose isn't societal health, then why do they exist? Why do we feel bad? Sounds rather arbitrary.